I don't believe in victimless crimes
A human becomes a person and inherits legal rights at birth, but I don't think anyone argues that you should be allowed to take an abortion up until that date. Based on science and rationality we can very precisely know how a fetus has developed at any given time. My personal opinion is that the 12 weeks which are a standard here seems reasonable. I don't think anyone will objectively claim that the fetus has developed into a person at that time. Yet again, I say objectively, as based on biology, not some religious (usually) belief that egg+sperm=instant person.
Well, I am one to state my opinion, just like you state yours. For some reason everyone seems to expect me to put a disclaimer on my posts to explain that I am writing my opinion, where as nobody else seems to need that. That being said, I really think we should be able to chalk this one down to common sense actually. Public policy should be based on facts, science and reality. Metaphysics first of all does not fulfill any empirical requirements, plus it's highly subjective. A public policy that applies to everyone in a nation should not be based on the subjective opinion of whatever group of people happen to be in possession of the most power at the time; it should be based on objective facts which are not (without self-delusion) rejected.
What is it about a trip down a birth canal that instantiates such a distinct and dramatic change in status for a child, I wonder? Seems arbitrary to me.
Point taken. I respectfully submit (and I mean this constructively...not trying to be caustic) that perhaps it is your dismissive and condescending attitude towards others that creates this burden on you. Your approach is not "Oh, that's interesting, but I disagree and this is why..." Rather, it's "anyone who does not see this issue the same way as me is irrational."
Re: metaphysics. I think you are confusing metaphysics with religious beliefs or spirituality or something. Certainly there is a metaphysical component to these things, but I'm speaking of metaphysics in a more strictly philosophical, and thus more general, sense. The question: "Is there special value to human life (in contrast to other forms of life)?" suggests contemplation of the metaphysical.
A human becomes a person and inherits legal rights at birth, but I don't think anyone argues that you should be allowed to take an abortion up until that date.
Quote from: «ě» on May 29, 2007, 07:44:17 PMA human becomes a person and inherits legal rights at birth, but I don't think anyone argues that you should be allowed to take an abortion up until that date. On the contrary, many, many people argue you should be able to have an abortion up until the moment of birth. Some even argue that the right to terminate the life of a child continues until 2-4 months after birth. This is extreme, obviously, and does not represent mainstream pro-choice views.
I suspect that alot of the time he's playing devils advocate but that's beside the point.
I haven't found <<e>> to be disagreeable. He's just expressing an opinion. I suspect that alot of the time he's playing devils advocate but that's beside the point.
I'v'e found that when people have a weakened argument to defend they tend to confuscate the language with abstract conceptual applications, figuratively speaking of course...Lets lighten up on the lawyer speak and talk straight here. Then we can acually focus on the issue at hand and not argue over definition.
My views on abortion are certainly the ones I convey here yes. I do not however seriously believe your wife to be a lunatic for her beliefs etc, was trying to get some action going there, and I guess I succeeded:) And I hope you take no offense indeed, I enjoy a heated debate on forums, this is sort of a no blood, no foul arena for discussion in my opinion. I'm a tad bit more gentle in real life conversations:)
I'm a libertarian, I don't care if you do things I don't like. I don't like having a penis in my butt, but I'll defend your right...