Black Conservatives

[«ě»]

Masturbation is irrelevant.  Sperm is not a living human individual any more than the cells in my fingernails when I trim them off.

And for a time in early pregnancy the fetus is no more than living cells either. But yes, I agree that the comparison is a bit off, it wasn't meant to be the basis of any conclusion.

When does a human individual become a person (and thus inherit the legal rights and protections that we assign to that the status of person)?  This is a metaphysical question, as it calls into question a distinction between simply being biologically human and being a person.  And, whether you acknowledge it or not, many of our public policy questions rely on metaphysical conclusions such as this.

A human becomes a person and inherits legal rights at birth, but I don't think anyone argues that you should be allowed to take an abortion up until that date. Based on science and rationality we can very precisely know how a fetus has developed at any given time. My personal opinion is that the 12 weeks which are a standard here seems reasonable. I don't think anyone will objectively claim that the fetus has developed into a person at that time. Yet again, I say objectively, as based on biology, not some religious (usually) belief that egg+sperm=instant person.

It's also interesting that your intolerance for others' views has reared its head again.  Who are you to tell everyone that metaphysics has no place in the public square?

Well, I am one to state my opinion, just like you state yours. For some reason everyone seems to expect me to put a disclaimer on my posts to explain that I am writing my opinion, where as nobody else seems to need that. That being said, I really think we should be able to chalk this one down to common sense actually. Public policy should be based on facts, science and reality. Metaphysics first of all does not fulfill any empirical requirements, plus it's highly subjective. A public policy that applies to everyone in a nation should not be based on the subjective opinion of whatever group of people happen to be in possession of the most power at the time; it should be based on objective facts which are not (without self-delusion) rejected.

[Captain]

I literally can't believe there's still people against abortion.

And I can't believe there are people for it...

...you just can't seem to believe that anyone could possibly disagree with you, eh?

[DDBY]

Sorry to have hijacked this thread, to those still tuned in.  I'm not black, and I'm not really talking about black conservatism...

Perhaps you have some sort of metaphysical blackness within...

And by the way I preserve my sperm inthe freezer in cas of an emergency. We may need to repopulate in a hurry.

[Hank Rearden]

I literally can't believe there's still people against abortion.

And I can't believe there are people for it...

...you just can't seem to believe that anyone could possibly disagree with you, eh?

I would be surprised, but there seem to be a lot of people around this site with that point of view.  

[«ě»]

I literally can't believe there's still people against abortion.

And I can't believe there are people for it...

...you just can't seem to believe that anyone could possibly disagree with you, eh?

Figure of speech mate. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Captain]

Don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand that some people choose not to have an abortion. But the mentality that "I don't like abortion, so nobody else should be allowed to" is fubar in my eyes.

Seems it's always men who's against it too actually. Guess it's easy to not support abortion when you can just bail on her sorry ass and be done with it?

LOL. Spread misinformation.

I'm a libertarian, I don't care if you do things I don't like. I don't like having a penis in my butt, but I'll defend your right...

I don't believe in victimless crimes, and if I were able to believe that there wasn't a victim in abortions, I would be all for it. However, my opinion is that there is.

It is a red herring to insinuate that Men are always the ones who are against abortion. It is not only a false statement, but it is completely irrelevant. Besides, perhaps men are viewed as more vehement opponents to abortion because we are ultimately the ones who are given no say in the matter. It is every bit as much the father's child after it is born, why not before?

[Captain]

Outlawing abortion won't end abortion. Working to end poverty and improve access to education will.

And then it will be suburban teenagers getting them, like they do now. Right here in NJ it is really easy for them, they don't even have to tell their parents. Perfect for the Catholic school girls.

[Captain]

No, it's actually not about disagree with me. It's about people feeling so entitled about their own principle and beliefs they feel it should apply to absolutely everyone. I have no problem what-so-ever if you and your wife chose not to have an abortion based on your beliefs or whatever. However the "because I think its wrong, nobody should do it" - that part I have very big problems with, and I'd hope more people did.

good point. Since some people don't think it is wrong for me to rape-kill your sister for not wearing a burhka, maybe it is ok. I mean, if we're not ALL against it, it can't be inherently wrong, can it?

[Captain]

No, it's actually not about disagree with me. It's about people feeling so entitled about their own principle and beliefs they feel it should apply to absolutely everyone. I have no problem what-so-ever if you and your wife chose not to have an abortion based on your beliefs or whatever. However the "because I think its wrong, nobody should do it" - that part I have very big problems with, and I'd hope more people did.

Isn't thinking something is wrong, and thus no one should do, the very basis of law?

"I think segregation is wrong, so no one should do it."
"I think polluting is wrong, so no one should do it."
"I think forcing workers into 18 hour days is wrong, so no one should do it."

Or am I missing something?

Every example you mentioned were cases that has severe consequences in other people's lives. An abortion affects nobody but the person making the decision to do so. So no, it's not the same thing.

Except it also affects the father of the baby, AND THE DEAD BABY WHO GETS VACUUMED OUT OF THE WOMB.

[DDBY]

I'm a libertarian, I don't care if you do things I don't like. I don't like having a penis in my butt, but I'll defend your right...

I'm sure the gays aprreciate the fact thet you got thier back...Pun Intended.






He said: Catholic school girls