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Author Topic: Black Conservatives  (Read 16901 times)

DDBY

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2007, 12:48:10 PM »
I liked you until the baby killing part, which is just ridiculous.

That being said, what's important to keep in mind is that it doesn't matter if people are fed up with gas prices or not. The inconvenience you would have to go through in order to 'protest' against increased gas prices means you won't realistically be able to. Better example of the same issue is health care where essentially BigMed without governmental restrictions pretty much can do whatever they want, because people aren't going to go "Nah, medicine is too expensive, so I'm gonna protest by dying". No. So as long as the product you're selling is important enough, and the other people selling comparable products are in the same line as you, supply and demand doesn't apply. Even Adam Smith actually knew this, the supply and demand thesis is somewhat dependent on an equality in power between the actors, and the corporate world versus individual consumers is nowhere near equal.
That's elasticity.  Price elasticity, supply, elasticity, demand elasticity.  That can be measured mathematically but I didn't want to get into it. You're right on the first part that measure of  opportunity cost.  They compare the values and choose the one that is least offensive.

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I can't figure out why people aren't doing more, but I suppose it's indicative of how little the typical american is active politically; too many other things to worry about/keep them occupied.

That because your're dealing with two different forces. Collecive psychology Vs. Individual Psychology.  I don't know enough to argue it but I know enough to know that the collective (or crowd psychology) is a powerful force.  Powerful enough that most economic theory is based on the reactions of the colective, not the individual.

Catherine Morland

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2007, 01:08:17 PM »
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The military is a perfect example of government control's affect on wages.

Not at all, the military is a perfect example of many people willing to put something above the bottom line on their paychecks when choosing employment. Every single officer with combat experience could get five times their army salary by signing up for a private contractor, private security companies etc, but they make the choice to stay in the Army because they believe in what they do and the cause they have dedicated their life to.

Actually, this really isn't true. Officers leave the military at a very high rate to take on those higher-paying private jobs. And those who stay are usually not doing it because they "believe" in something. There are other factors like job security, the ability to live in exotic places, and an institutionalized mentality (what would I do if I left sort of thing).

Meanwhile - Gwiz why did you post this here instead of BLSD?
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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2007, 01:17:34 PM »
Actually, this really isn't true. Officers leave the military at a very high rate to take on those higher-paying private jobs. And those who stay are usually not doing it because they "believe" in something. There are other factors like job security, the ability to live in exotic places, and an institutionalized mentality (what would I do if I left sort of thing).

That really doesn't reflect my experience. Of the American soldiers I've spent time with, a huge majority of them do it for the people and the country, and they wouldn't leave their job for all the money in the world. I realize I've only met a fraction of the Army, so could be that overall you are correct, but it certainly doesn't apply to all of them.

DDBY

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2007, 01:20:59 PM »
Meanwhile - Gwiz why did you post this here instead of BLSD?
I wanted it to stand out.  I think admitted Black Conservatives are a minority in our community.  I believe as an overall culture African Americaks are more conservative than people think and lean more toward the conservative Democrat or libertarian side of things.

I wanted to see if I could draw some of that out and figured having it in a "Self Defined Minority" area would make it easier for people to speak up.

I also wanted non-black Americans to feel open to speaking... along with the ocassional Norwegian  ;) 

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2007, 01:22:10 PM »
I always volunteer my 2 cents, whether it's wanted or not  ;D

DDBY

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2007, 01:30:26 PM »
Actually, this really isn't true. Officers leave the military at a very high rate to take on those higher-paying private jobs. And those who stay are usually not doing it because they "believe" in something. There are other factors like job security, the ability to live in exotic places, and an institutionalized mentality (what would I do if I left sort of thing).

That really doesn't reflect my experience. Of the American soldiers I've spent time with, a huge majority of them do it for the people and the country, and they wouldn't leave their job for all the money in the world. I realize I've only met a fraction of the Army, so could be that overall you are correct, but it certainly doesn't apply to all of them.
I'm an Army Vet.  Airborne! Whooah!
It goes both ways.  I believe a majority of soldiers (and others) feel a genuine need to be there in times of crisis.  Even when they leave for bigger pay if it was needed some of those people would drop everything to come back.

I think there is a general sense of selflessness in soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines that most civilians could never understand. 

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2007, 01:34:40 PM »
So am I, glad to see I'm not the only one around here :) Actually, I've found a few others too.

Captain

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2007, 02:22:19 PM »
1. Do you think people are sick of paying as much as they do for gas?
Absolutely, but the rich people who can afford it still want to drive gas guzzlers... Oil is a cartel. I already stated that. They are somewhat immune to market pressure because there is no other option. I won't argue against myself. Sorry.

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2. Why don't we collectively do the things necessary to change that via the system as it works (ie, stop buying gas, start demanding more efficient or alternative fuel vehicles)?
Hyundais sell like hotcakes and Hybrids are popular as well. There is a start-up company in the funding stages right now that has developed an engine that can run on any of a number of fuels, from ethanol to gasoline to diesel and any mix in between -- the market IS moving to correct the problem, but we require new technology to do so.

That makes absolutely no sense at all, unless you think BigMed is doing a good job keeping people (other than the affluent) in good shape now. And if you seriously think that, not just trying to argue.. well.

"BIGMED" does a good job for most people, actually. Medicine in THIS country is actually pretty excellent. The insurance companies suck, but even they aren't that bad. The complaint is that some people aren't covered. Lower-end employees or the unemployed -- who don't have corporate-sponsored medical plans. There was a discussion about this elsewhere and I am not interested in re-hashing here. I think that socialized  medicine will be worse for this country as a whole, than any system we have now.

My uncle in the UK was told by NHS that even though his heart stopped and he almost died, he couldn't have a pace-maker. They were pretty sure it could happen again, but the wait to get the procedure was long, and they didn't consider him a priority (he was in his 80s, and I guess they figured he's going to die soon anyway...). They told him not to drive, in case his heart stopped again in the car, and sent him on his  way.

Whether it is the government or an insurance company paying for it, it doesn't matter. It will always be about the bottom line.

Better example of the same issue is health care where essentially BigMed without governmental restrictions pretty much can do whatever they want, because people aren't going to go "Nah, medicine is too expensive, so I'm gonna protest by dying". No. So as long as the product you're selling is important enough, and the other people selling comparable products are in the same line as you, supply and demand doesn't apply.

That's not really how it works. Right now the problem is that the consumer of medical care has no choice regarding the provider. By making the government the provider, you only exacerbate the problem. Right now the VAST majority of Americans with Medical Insurance get it through their job. The company picks a plan that fits the company's financial requirements -- and you'll take it because it's cheap enough for you and you don't expect to get screwed in the deal, but when *&^% hits the fan and Blue Cross says you can't go to the Doctor you want, or that you can't have a procedure, you have no choices.

What we NEED is to hand the CHOICE over to the consumer. Instead of the insurance companies going after large corporate accounts, make them sell their services to the individuals who actually consume the medical care. If Blue Cross won't pay for your pace-maker, I'm sure that AFLAC will step up -- why? because you'll continue to pay them afterwards, and all of your friends and family will go to AFLAC as well, because AFLAC took care of you.

If we nationalize healthcare, then there is only one choice. If the government says no, you're either screwed, or you better be rich enough to go to another country for care.


Start a thread about healthcare, or PM me a link and we can go more in-depth about it.

I liked you until the baby killing part, which is just ridiculous.

I'll send you some biology text books and after you read them we can continue that discussion.
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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2007, 02:32:56 PM »
"BIGMED" does a good job for most people, actually. Medicine in THIS country is actually pretty excellent. The insurance companies suck, but even they aren't that bad. The complaint is that some people aren't covered. Lower-end employees or the unemployed -- who don't have corporate-sponsored medical plans. There was a discussion about this elsewhere and I am not interested in re-hashing here. I think that socialized  medicine will be worse for this country as a whole, than any system we have now.
You're of course free to think that, but it really seems hard to understand why. And I really don't see how you can feel 'BIGMED' is taking good care of you, you are the World's biggest cash cow when it comes to health, and they're milking you like it's giving them a bender. If BIGMED was taking good care of you, people wouldn't be smuggling medicines by truckloads from Canada. American medicine at that.

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My uncle in the UK was told by NHS that even though his heart stopped and he almost died, he couldn't have a pace-maker. They were pretty sure it could happen again, but the wait to get the procedure was long, and they didn't consider him a priority (he was in his 80s, and I guess they figured he's going to die soon anyway...). They told him not to drive, in case his heart stopped again in the car, and sent him on his  way.
Yeah, like an 80 year old would be first in line for a heart transplant in the US. bull, and you know it. And the fact that the UK has 'socialized medicine' doesn't mean there aren't privatized options available for those willing to pay (like you do in the US). They have both options, which means that the people who can't afford privatized health care still has a decent option to go to, unlike the American MediCare which honestly is a shame.

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Whether it is the government or an insurance company paying for it, it doesn't matter. It will always be about the bottom line.
Yes, but the government's bottom line is about making the ends meet. The insurance company's bottom line is about buying another Bentley and a yacht in St. Barts. If you question that, you're the perfect corporate client.


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That's not really how it works. Right now the problem is that the consumer of medical care has no choice regarding the provider. By making the government the provider, you only exacerbate the problem.
Actually, you don't as I illustrated above. If you make the government the provider, you have one option there. Then you have private health care as a more expensive option for those who want that. You would get the options you specifically said you didn't have at the moment.


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If we nationalize healthcare, then there is only one choice. If the government says no, you're either screwed, or you better be rich enough to go to another country for care.

This is where you, and I expect most Americans end up way out in the woods when it comes to governmental services like health care. It's not like they outlaw private practice etc, it's a supplement, not a replacement. Norway has almost-free health service for everyone. Yet thousands of people, like myself, have a private practitioner doctor. I have had several surgeries, all at private hospitals, paying my own way. It isn't either this or that, you can actually have this cake and eat it too. Isn't that brilliant?

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I'll send you some biology text books and after you read them we can continue that discussion.
The fact that you assume people are uneducated for disagreeing with you is so ridiculous and arrogant that literally anything you say from here on is worthless junk. Go slap yourself. Oh, and, pamphlets from "Pro-Life" organizations aren't textbooks btw.

Hank Rearden

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2007, 02:34:28 PM »
I would like to have a cat provided it barked. 
CLS '10

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