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Author Topic: Black Conservatives  (Read 16099 times)

Journeyman

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2007, 10:05:36 AM »
PPS  The Stalin/Zedong versions of Communism were not true Communism.
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Journeyman

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2007, 10:07:47 AM »
Please don't blindly equate Marxism to Communism, it just shows you have no frigging idea what you're talking about. Karl Marx represents just one of many theoretical types of communism. And that wasn't even the topic here, it was socialism.

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I get uneasy when government gets too involved in anything.

This is (yet another) thing I find weird about Americans, although I sort of see it in an historical context. You are more uneasy about government taking control of important institutions in your life than you are in share holders and CEOs having control of the same things... Is there any logic in that? Do you generally believe billionaire shareholders to be more ethical and just in their control of America than the politicians would be? Not saying it's wrong, just looking for what lies behind it.

Why should I believe that the government controlling the economy would be a good thing.  In AMERICA, if you read the Constitution (you know the thing that spelled out our government), the government is in charge of providing common defense and promoting general welfare...not controlling production and distribution of goods and services.
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Journeyman, I am dumbfounded as to how you got into IU and W&L with your numbers. 155 LSAT and you applied to Vanderbilt? Honestly?

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2007, 10:09:15 AM »
What does it matter who wrote the first theory of communism? It's not like ANY country is run based on theories from the 19th century, so why would you make this assumption from any socialist government?

And why do you keep talking about communism, when the question was socialism?

I'm sure you were a very good scholarship boy in college.

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Why should I believe that the government controlling the economy would be a good thing.

Answering a question with another question is usually a sign of defeat, don't you think? Why don't you rather answer what I asked first?

Journeyman

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2007, 10:30:06 AM »
Ok wanker...I'm about to head to the beach, so I'm going to resolve that we agree to disagree. The country I live in (America) was not founded on the tenets of socialism...our founding fathers were capitalists.  So is socialism wrong, that's up to you to decide.  Capitalism works for me, because it rewards hard work and promotes effiency within the market.

I worked hard to get where I am, so my salary should be commensurate with my hard work.  Thank you and good night.
IU-B '10

Journeyman, I am dumbfounded as to how you got into IU and W&L with your numbers. 155 LSAT and you applied to Vanderbilt? Honestly?

Journeyman

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2007, 10:32:17 AM »
PS...if you don't like what we write on the black CONSERVATIVE thread.... go start the "who knows what you are" SOCIALISTS thread
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Journeyman, I am dumbfounded as to how you got into IU and W&L with your numbers. 155 LSAT and you applied to Vanderbilt? Honestly?

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2007, 10:33:04 AM »
Heh, sorry, you make me laugh. I like you :)

bamf

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2007, 10:33:20 AM »
Please don't blindly equate Marxism to Communism, it just shows you have no frigging idea what you're talking about. Karl Marx represents just one of many theoretical types of communism. And that wasn't even the topic here, it was socialism.

Quote
I get uneasy when government gets too involved in anything.

This is (yet another) thing I find weird about Americans, although I sort of see it in an historical context. You are more uneasy about government taking control of important institutions in your life than you are in share holders and CEOs having control of the same things... Is there any logic in that? Do you generally believe billionaire shareholders to be more ethical and just in their control of America than the politicians would be? Not saying it's wrong, just looking for what lies behind it.

Why should I believe that the government controlling the economy would be a good thing.  In AMERICA, if you read the Constitution (you know the thing that spelled out our government), the government is in charge of providing common defense and promoting general welfare...not controlling production and distribution of goods and services.

do you think it promotes the "general welfare" to let huge corporations control so much wealth while the middle class is systematically dismantled?  Socialism is not ALWAYS complete control of an economy, but it is a safeguard against ongoing exploitation and concentration of wealth.
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bamf

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2007, 10:34:30 AM »
Ok wanker...I'm about to head to the beach, so I'm going to resolve that we agree to disagree. The country I live in (America) was not founded on the tenets of socialism...our founding fathers were capitalists. 

my little brother is looking for colleges right now, could you tell me which one you went to so I can tell him not to go there?
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Denny Crane

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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2007, 10:36:55 AM »
I worked hard to get where I am, so my salary should be commensurate with my hard work.  Thank you and good night.

I'm an ardent capitalist as well, but that's a very  big should.  Capitalism  (as implemented IRL) is not perfect.  Also, salaries in capitalist societies rarely reflect "hard work".  They reflect the supply/demand of the services desired (ie: doctors are highly valued and generally rare, so they're paid a lot.  Janitors are also highly valued, but there are many more people who can do a janitor's job, so they're paid substantially less).

Also, soldiers work hard every day, probably harder than most, but are paid a paltry salary because there are a lot of them and because there is normally a steady supply of would-be soldiers.  When the supply started to dwindle after the war in Iraq, what did the Pentagon do to attract more recruits?  Raised salaries/bonuses/benefits.  
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Re: Black Conservatives
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2007, 10:47:52 AM »
And why do you keep talking about communism, when the question was socialism?

...Perhaps it is because Socialism, in practice, amounts to half-assed communism, and like communism, it fails in most of the places it is instituted.

Quote
Quote
Why should I believe that the government controlling the economy would be a good thing.

Answering a question with another question is usually a sign of defeat, don't you think? Why don't you rather answer what I asked first?
[/quote]

You didn't ask me a question, so I'll ask it: Why should I believe that the government controlling the economy would be a good thing?

do you think it promotes the "general welfare" to let huge corporations control so much wealth while the middle class is systematically dismantled?  Socialism is not ALWAYS complete control of an economy, but it is a safeguard against ongoing exploitation and concentration of wealth.


Let me comment:

1) The corporations control nothing. PEOPLE control the corporations, and not just the owners, also the consumers. Remember the poisoned dog-food scandal a few months ago? It wasn't the CEO of ALPO who was outraged, it was the owner of Fido. No more deadly dog-food... Also, Imus was fired because Al Sharpton organized radio listeners. Corporations are pushovers.

2) The middle class is being dismantled? Are you sure? Come to NJ, we're ALLL middle-class here.

3) Socialism is, in practice, not ever the complete control of the economy, but usually the government manages to create more than it's share of harmful monopolies. Also the wealth re-distribution schemes are more likely to create a large lower-class and shrink the middle-class  than capitalism, IMHO. British Socialism killed industry in the UK, and still has lasting effects today.
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