Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

Are stay-at-home mothers with  graduate degrees conscientious caretakers or the downfall of equality in the workforce?

Educated stay-at-home mothers raise educated kids, benefiting society
 28 (35.4%)
Mothers should work part-time if possible
 10 (12.7%)
Mothers should be full-time 3-6 months after birth
 6 (7.6%)
Anything less than full-time is a detriment to all women and society
 5 (6.3%)
Doesn't affect society or equality either way
 30 (38%)

Total Members Voted: 79

Author Topic: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s  (Read 15591 times)

mugatu

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2007, 02:27:52 AM »

"Nurture" plays as important of a role in the development of a human being as "nature" (the latter provides the frame, while the former fills it in).  As a parent, I believe it is my responsibility not only to raise a child (in the physical sense), but also to place it in society in an informed state.  This state includes everything from knowing basic taboos (and why or why not one should pay attention to them) to avoiding pejorative ignorance.

If I can raise an informed child, I can curb ignorance.  If I can curb ignorance, I can affect a number of societal ills.  It is key to note that these ills cannot be eliminated before such forms of pejorative ignorance are not also eliminated.  As such, spending a large amount of time with my children is a benefit to society.  Maybe not a gazillion hours, but enough to play a central role in their lives. 

Yes, I am assuming my values are correct.  Yes, I may be wrong.  That still doesn't relinquish me from the weight of that responsibility.


Are those things really day-to-day activities?  Really?



Yes.  Although that wasn't part of my argument.  I'm just showing why there's a societal benefit to personally raising your children.

You didn't grow up with any younger siblings, did you?



I did not, no.  Why?

I agree that all of those things are important, but I don't think I learned things from my parents on a day-to-day basis, and (contrary to current opinion, perhaps) learned right and wrong, customs, work ethic (the law review paper would laugh at that, since I'm still on the first paragraph, though), etc.

I also had a very nice "nanny" (read: closer to permanent babysitter) who helped as well.  I'm sure I picked things up from her as well as my parents, but that's because my parents picked someone who had good values.  This is the same as hanging out with my own parents.


Not the same, necessarily, but approximates it.  Either way, it's up to the individual to determine how much of a risk it is to trust a stranger's values.  For some, it's not an issue at all.  Other are control freaks, like me.

I asked about siblings because if you'd helped raise a sibling in any way, the whole day-to-day thing would seem a little more obvious.


I guess so, but I still happened.  (And others too, with less attention paid to them.)  And, I share many of my parent's viewpoints.  Not all, but some.
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sillyberry

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2007, 02:31:37 AM »
I need to buy a ballcock.

This has nothing to do with The Mommy Wars (at least not these Mommy Wars), but you're the group of people who seems to be awake and I thought you would want to know.

Your toilet's broken?

Yep, and no man to fix it.  Le sigh.
Juicy: UChicago

It sounds so reasonable when you say it.

mugatu

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2007, 02:37:39 AM »

No, it's the opposite.  I attempted to respond directly to your post.  If those personal preferences are NOT societal pressures in nature, then they may be considered.

Oh good, that's somewhat better then.  How much weight to they have?  Assuming the family can afford it with relative ease, at what point does a desire, a simple desire to stay home with one's kids, trump everything else? 

It would trump career (and the hypo trumps money) so it would have to trump societal benefit.  You could do this pretty easily as well.

So you aren't really a hardliner at all, you were just making a point?

Yes, but I would still consider that person incredibly lazy if they aren't doing something else.  So...

But if they explained to you the meaningless drudgery of their job as a . . . copywriter, or something, how little it contributed to the family coffers compared to their spouse, and the extent to which they wanted to spend the first couple of years with their child after it was born, you'd be fine with it?

(I still don't get why you feel the need to judge the decisions of others in this particular regard, but I'm ignoring that for the moment.)

People only work bad jobs out of necessity, not desire.  (This is the flaw in the hypo, maybe.)  I mean, they wouldn't be leaving a crappy job.  They'd be leaving...gallery director or some other job that you can buy.  (Which they enjoy, because you only purchase jobs you like.)  They can leave, fine.  They should then try to do something.

Note...if you really, really raise money for charities, and don't just talk about it or donate it yourself, it's pretty much a full time job, so they could do that...

(I don't feel the need to judge, it just happens.  Maybe it's jealousy.   :o  I think it's closer to the desire of people to take advantages of the gifts given them.)

I need to buy a ballcock.

This has nothing to do with The Mommy Wars (at least not these Mommy Wars), but you're the group of people who seems to be awake and I thought you would want to know.

Your toilet's broken?

Yep, and no man to fix it.  Le sigh.

Perhaps you should find yourself a man who's willing, to the detriment of society, to stay home and fix your plumbing.

 ::)  It's not like you have to stay home to do that.  Fixing a toilet takes an hour, maybe.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

sillyberry

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2007, 02:38:08 AM »
I need to buy a ballcock.

This has nothing to do with The Mommy Wars (at least not these Mommy Wars), but you're the group of people who seems to be awake and I thought you would want to know.

Your toilet's broken?

Yep, and no man to fix it.  Le sigh.

Perhaps you should find yourself a man who's willing, to the detriment of society, to stay home and fix your plumbing.

I feel fairly confident that society would greatly benefit if there was a man whose sole purpose was to stay home and fix my plumbing.  At least the people who have to interact with me on a regular basis would appreciate that.
Juicy: UChicago

It sounds so reasonable when you say it.

jimfoolery

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2007, 02:39:34 AM »
I need to buy a ballcock.

This has nothing to do with The Mommy Wars (at least not these Mommy Wars), but you're the group of people who seems to be awake and I thought you would want to know.

Your toilet's broken?

Yep, and no man to fix it.  Le sigh.

*knock knock knock*

"Hi, I got a call about some pipes that need cleaning?"
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mugatu

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2007, 02:56:10 AM »

People only work bad jobs out of necessity, not desire.  (This is the flaw in the hypo, maybe.)  I mean, they wouldn't be leaving a crappy job.  They'd be leaving...gallery director or some other job that you can buy.  (Which they enjoy, because you only purchase jobs you like.)  They can leave, fine.  They should then try to do something.

Note...if you really, really raise money for charities, and don't just talk about it or donate it yourself, it's pretty much a full time job, so they could do that...

(I don't feel the need to judge, it just happens.  Maybe it's jealousy.   :o  I think it's closer to the desire of people to take advantages of the gifts given them.)

What if they did something artistic, like painting?  Cooked a lot?  What's a worthwhile hobby, in this instance?

I don't know.  I'm about to concede anyway, because I'm tired of the argument.

Quote
Quote
I need to buy a ballcock.

This has nothing to do with The Mommy Wars (at least not these Mommy Wars), but you're the group of people who seems to be awake and I thought you would want to know.

Your toilet's broken?

Yep, and no man to fix it.  Le sigh.

Perhaps you should find yourself a man who's willing, to the detriment of society, to stay home and fix your plumbing.

 ::)  It's not like you have to stay home to do that.  Fixing a toilet takes an hour, maybe.

Missed the joke entirely. :D

Psst.  I got it.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

mugatu

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2007, 03:02:36 AM »
OK.  Everyone else wins.  Do whatever.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

Astro

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2007, 03:07:13 AM »
I'm glad you're giving in to life, mu.  I wish I could've taught you this lesson when you were two, though.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

mugatu

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2007, 03:09:30 AM »
I'm glad you're giving in to life, mu.  I wish I could've taught you this lesson when you were two, though.


::sigh::
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

Astro

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Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2007, 03:10:17 AM »
I'm glad you're giving in to life, mu.  I wish I could've taught you this lesson when you were two, though.


Maybe if you hadn't been working so much.


Damn nanny.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all.