Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

Are stay-at-home mothers with  graduate degrees conscientious caretakers or the downfall of equality in the workforce?

Educated stay-at-home mothers raise educated kids, benefiting society
 28 (35.4%)
Mothers should work part-time if possible
 10 (12.7%)
Mothers should be full-time 3-6 months after birth
 6 (7.6%)
Anything less than full-time is a detriment to all women and society
 5 (6.3%)
Doesn't affect society or equality either way
 30 (38%)

Total Members Voted: 79

Author Topic: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s  (Read 16120 times)

mugatu

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 22183
  • I'll show YOU pacifist.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 09:30:39 PM »
Spending a gazillion hours a day with the kids is not benefiting society. 

well it could be.

Not unless you are singularly able to provide some service that some other person (or group of people) is not.  Anyone can nurture.  Not anyone can treat diseases, bring a class action on behalf of injured people or take a company public.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

just call me elle

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 134
  • pink, puppies, Crimson, and I belong together
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 09:31:56 PM »
Spending a gazillion hours a day with the kids is not benefiting society.  (Neglecting kids, however, is a detriment.) 

agreed.

mugatu

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 22183
  • I'll show YOU pacifist.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 09:43:30 PM »
Spending a gazillion hours a day with the kids is not benefiting society. 

well it could be.

Not unless you are singularly able to provide some service that some other person (or group of people) is not.  Anyone can nurture.  Not anyone can treat diseases, bring a class action on behalf of injured people or take a company public.

YOU SAID IT WASN'T ABOUT BENEFITING SOCIETY.

This is inconsistent, dude. Do you fault everyone for not living up to their potential? Do you put value judgments on people who don't work as hard as they could at their jobs in order to improve their quality of life in other ways?

Or benefit the person.  Could you clarify what you meant by "except...strive for equality?"  I think I misunderstood.

In any case, yes and yes.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

mugatu

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 22183
  • I'll show YOU pacifist.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 09:47:38 PM »
You are correct.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

mugatu

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 22183
  • I'll show YOU pacifist.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 09:56:45 PM »
You are correct.

Well, I think that's too bad, but I guess I know where you're coming from.



The principles aren't far flung or very numerous, but they are important (to me.)

I'm not sure where you're coming from.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

jimfoolery

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1544
  • Bo knows.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2007, 11:10:39 PM »
*swears off sleep and recreation for the sake of society*
Werewolf bar mitzvah, spooky, scary,
Boys becoming men, men becoming wolves!

road

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 12:45:20 AM »
Spending a gazillion hours a day with the kids is not benefiting society. 

well it could be.

Not unless you are singularly able to provide some service that some other person (or group of people) is not.  Anyone can nurture.  Not anyone can treat diseases, bring a class action on behalf of injured people or take a company public.

This comment rubs me the wrong way for two reasons. First, the idea that anyone can nurture is just plain wrong. When a loved one dies would you want me to send you rent-a-buddy(tm) to take you on a walk and tell you everything will be ok? Infants develop attachments to their parents from day 1 and a child's relationship to his parent can have long term psychological repercussions. I'm not saying this to argue that mothers shouldn't work or that a child who spends time in day care is ruined--I don't believe that--but I work damn hard as a father and anyone who claims that my work has no value is going to get a prominent spot on my shove-it list.

Second, you seem to be arguing that, unless one can provide a service that others cannot, one's work is not valuable. Again this is plain wrong. The basic infrastructure of a society has more value and plays a larger role in the society's long-term stability than the "high-value" services you praise. For example, our plumbers and garbage men and women play a greater role in keeping us free from disease than our doctors do.
IANAL...Y

mugatu

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 22183
  • I'll show YOU pacifist.
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 01:03:23 AM »
Spending a gazillion hours a day with the kids is not benefiting society. 

well it could be.

Not unless you are singularly able to provide some service that some other person (or group of people) is not.  Anyone can nurture.  Not anyone can treat diseases, bring a class action on behalf of injured people or take a company public.

This comment rubs me the wrong way for two reasons. First, the idea that anyone can nurture is just plain wrong. When a loved one dies would you want me to send you rent-a-buddy(tm) to take you on a walk and tell you everything will be ok? Infants develop attachments to their parents from day 1 and a child's relationship to his parent can have long term psychological repercussions. I'm not saying this to argue that mothers shouldn't work or that a child who spends time in day care is ruined--I don't believe that--but I work damn hard as a father and anyone who claims that my work has no value is going to get a prominent spot on my shove-it list.

In the context of this discussion, nurturing indicates the ability to rear children.  With small exceptions, most people are able to make sure that children don't die in their day-to-day activities.  The "buddy" example is not quite on point.  That has more to do with relationship and comfort rather than nurturing and development.  Furthermore, no one has advocated a lack of involvement in one's children's lives.  Your final statement leads into the next paragraph.

Quote
Second, you seem to be arguing that, unless one can provide a service that others cannot, one's work is not valuable. Again this is plain wrong. The basic infrastructure of a society has more value and plays a larger role in the society's long-term stability than the "high-value" services you praise. For example, our plumbers and garbage men and women play a greater role in keeping us free from disease than our doctors do.

I haven't said that at all.  I've made the case that if work you could do is more valuable than other work, you should choose to do the former.  I've also indicated that if the other work you could do is not more valuable then it may be a good idea to stay home and rear children.  I've expressly attached value to the service.
Let me show you Derelicte. It is a fashion, a way of life inspired by the very homeless, the vagrants, the crack whores that make this wonderful city so unique.

They're break-dance fighting.

Astro

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10016
  • Happy birthday goalie!!!
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 01:21:40 AM »
Maybe, but you can't do anything without money (from yourself or others.)

You don't need an infinite amount. You seem to be saying that people have a duty to capitalize their earnings potential as much as they possibly can.

Oh, no.

I thought we were talking about the difference between "staying home with the kids" or "working."  If we start to get into gray areas the discussion gets more complicated (from my side) and more interesting (for all parties.)


I want to stay at home with the kids, dude.  What do you make of that?
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Astro

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10016
  • Happy birthday goalie!!!
    • View Profile
Re: The Mommy Wars for J.D.s
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 01:23:01 AM »
Oh.

<---thinks they should.
<---thinks feminism isn't really about choice
<---thinks it's more about equality

:: is crushed ::

Sorry.

Do you want to tell me why I'm wrong in SFLSD or here?

Well, Netflix came today.  Can I channel the feminist overlords another time?


 :D :D :D

I thought I was the only lazy one around here.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all.