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Author Topic: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father  (Read 5947 times)

Miss P

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2007, 10:12:44 AM »
But I do think, and most any reasonable scholar would agree, that Thomnas is quite unimpressive for a Justice of the United States Supreme Court.

You see, scholars don't think this.  There's a lot of good work on the complexities of Thomas's jurisprudence and I feel fairly confident that almost no respected law professor would accuse him of being unimpressive.  Your willingness to believe what is essentially an unscholastic and ridiculous opinion and attempt to gloss it with the respectibility of scholarship is just sad.  The race thing is at its most telling when people imply that he just does what Scalia tells him.  You know who else was quiet?  George Washington.  Except Washington owned slaved and hated whiskey, which is pretty much worse than sexually harassing your subordinates.

Hating whiskey is quite an offense (way to bring the post on topic, Captain), but Thomas is a pretty horrible person just the same.  He's just not a stupid horrible person. 
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
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obamacon

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2007, 11:08:51 AM »
Except Washington owned slaved

Applying the standards of today is unfair.

H4CS

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2007, 11:15:02 AM »
Except Washington owned slaved

Applying the standards of today is unfair.

It was wrong by the moral standards of his day as well.  Just ask Hamilton.  You're confusing legality with morality.  And yes P, Thomas is hardly a decent guy or someone on whom I seek to heap admiration.  He's just not stupid (and he's not as morally bankrupt as a Washington).


ě

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2007, 11:21:30 AM »
8 pages and no love for Franklin? :(

obamacon

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2007, 11:26:08 AM »
It was wrong by the moral standards of his day as well.

So the qualification would be whether a tiny subset of the population of what, for all intents and purposes, was a different country (NY vs. VA) had raised an objection to a practice that had been continually used for thousands of years?

H4CS

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2007, 11:36:05 AM »
So the qualification would be whether a tiny subset of the population of what, for all intents and purposes, was a different country (NY vs. VA) had raised an objection to a practice that had been continually used for thousands of years?

Look who's the moral relativist now.  This can't possibly be how you judge such an idea.  Rape, murder, confinement, and shunning have been used for thousands of years throughout the world to keep women down.  Can men in rural Pakistan say that honor killings are fine by the standards of their time because only a subset of a population of another country feels they aren't?  Does that suddenly change when a subset swings from 49% to 51%? 

Washington lacked the foresight, intelligence, and compassion of his abolitionist peers.  It's not like there was no way for him to have known better.  He just chose not to do the right thing.  I don't see what's so hard about this.

obamacon

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2007, 11:50:00 AM »
Rape, murder

These were illegal and have no historical basis.

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Washington lacked the foresight, intelligence, and compassion of his abolitionist peers.  It's not like there was no way for him to have known better.  He just chose not to do the right thing.  I don't see what's so hard about this.

Or he thought that treating his slaves rather well and then emancipating them when he died in addition to privately expressing his dislike for slavery as an institution so as not to destroy the country to be good enough.

H4CS

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2007, 11:55:14 AM »
Or he thought that treating his slaves rather well and then emancipating them when he died in addition to privately expressing his dislike for slavery as an institution so as not to destroy the country to be good enough.

So we're going to use a subjective test of whether or not someone thought they were doing "a good enough" job to decide if their actions were moral.  So when aforementioned Pakistanis think they are helping a girl by performing an honor killing (or Christian parents who get their gay son electroshock to save him, etc) then they get a free pass?  And the illegality of rape is hardly set in stone or unchanging enough for you to jettison that argument.

skeeball

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2007, 11:58:17 AM »
Tag

obamacon

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Re: Poll: Your favorite Founding Father
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2007, 12:02:05 PM »
So when aforementioned Pakistanis think they are helping a girl by performing an honor killing

This is widely considered vigilantism, even in Pakistan.

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(or Christian parents who get their gay son electroshock to save him, etc) then they get a free pass?

Would you mind if the problem was depression?