law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions

[bros]

any other ?s   ?

ask anything at all.

How'd the summer job search go?  Have much time for this between classes/studying? (apologies if you covered this elsewhere)

i didnt go out for summer jobs because i knew that my chances of getting a paid position anywhere were extremely slim, and probably not worth the trouble. instead i made up my mind early to take classes in the summer so as to boost my GPA and get a jump on next year/3L. About 5 people in my section got firm jobs, there are a LOT of kids doing summer school and the rest are doing unpaid stuff in our local large city.

[dat_raw_n_tellect]

Thanks for the advice, bros!

I read your posts and I didn't feel like you were being overly dramatic.  I appreciate you being upfront about your school's situation.  I will not be attending a "T14" and am willing to here different point of views about the law school atmosphere.  I may just be a naive 0L, but I haven't seen anything wrong with what you said or how it was phrased.

You might have already covered this (I believed I read the entire thread) but do you have any tips on when to take practice tests?  I am *striving* to stay up-to-date with my reading assignments and outlining, but when exactly would you suggest starting to look at practice tests?  Also, do you use any student support programs/systems at your school?  (For example, mentoring from a professor/3L student, etc.)

Thank you for your help and thank you for volunteering to talk about your experiences!! 

[ColumbiaJD]

aagain, you're TOTALLY exaggerating what i am saying and projecting your idea of a gunner, library book stealer, classmate fucker over.

I'm not exaggerating what you said.  You said that it is "important" to do "ANYTHING you can do to give yourself an advantage over your classmates" (emphasis YOURS).  You said that you shouldn't focus on "learning the law/material" but rather focus on "BEATING your classmates" (emphasis again YOURS).  Moreover, one should focus on "doing things that will put you ahead of them" (whatever that is).  You said that all of this should be a law student's "primary goal" (thus ahead of things like doing the best you can, getting good grades, getting a good job, having a fun time, making friends, building a network of future colleagues, etc.)

I'll assume that you simply overstated your thoughts.  But I still stand by my point: focusing on the competition isn't good advice for future law students.  This is true regardless of where you are.  You still don't seem to get my central point: If you do the best that you can in a competition against yourself, you will do just as well as if you're thinking about beating out your classmates.  Do you get this?  Obviously, you have to know the material better than the other guys to get a good grade.  But you have NO CONTROL over that, unless you resort to gunnerish douchebaggery.

You're right that A's aren't given out like candy, as they often are in college.  But you're wrong that this means you need to "do anything you can" to hurt your classmates.  My suggestion for future law students is that they keep their mental frame of reference on THEMSELVES, not on their classmates.

furthermore, you go to a school where competition is less important because the quality employers will go VERY deep into the class, so you really have a different experience, don't you?

Before, you implied Columbia students DID need to be cutthroat to get ahead, since they're outside of the HYS.  I'll assume that you just overstated your belief there too.
You are totally right that just about anyone can get a biglaw job paying market from CLS.  To this extent, there's a little less pressure in my experience.  And no doubt a lot less of this cutthroat competition.  Regardless, Columbia students still want to do well.  Regardless of job prospects, no one likes getting a B-.  And there are still limited numbers of Law Review spots, prestigious clerkships, academic awards, etc.  So even students at higher ranked schools feel the need to do well.  But I think the point is that you can do well without targeting fellow students as your enemy.

bros, I'm sure you're a nice guy.  I don't want to imply you're a gunner or a feminine hygiene product or anything.  But I want to emphasize a take-away point for those actually looking at this thread for advice: don't let yourself be consumed by competition.  You can do just as well by focusing on working hard and doing the best you can, and will be all the better for it.  Perhaps you can agree to that premise?

[bros]

Thanks for the advice, bros!

I read your posts and I didn't feel like you were being overly dramatic.  I appreciate you being upfront about your school's situation.  I will not be attending a "T14" and am willing to here different point of views about the law school atmosphere.  I may just be a naive 0L, but I haven't seen anything wrong with what you said or how it was phrased.

You might have already covered this (I believed I read the entire thread) but do you have any tips on when to take practice tests?  I am *striving* to stay up-to-date with my reading assignments and outlining, but when exactly would you suggest starting to look at practice tests?  Also, do you use any student support programs/systems at your school?  (For example, mentoring from a professor/3L student, etc.)

Thank you for your help and thank you for volunteering to talk about your experiences!! 

I really wish that I had made time to take more practice tests. Sometimes the profs themselves will put past practice tests up on e-reserve or what have you - these are obviously the best. also pepperdine and harvard have good banks of tests. glannon's guides and other commercial prep materials have tests with sample answers, which are mighty helpful, but might not fit your particular course.

I would start doing them about a month before your exam, and try to do 2 per week. any more than that, and i would be burned out. any less, and i feel like it's underpreparing. the key is to practice. even though you might know the law, law school exams (at least for me) are hard to take and i needed practice to really make sure that i developed each issue the way i should.

[dat_raw_n_tellect]

Can I just say that I am not really concerned about the other students in the class, but "competing" with myself and doing the best I know that I can do...so hopefully my question concerning taking practice exams was not seen as someone who misunderstood this.  Or someone who will potentially try to out do my classmates.

I am not quite understanding the disagreement here though, but I believe it is because the other "T14" schools were not mentioned along with HYS, by bros.  So will the back and forth cease if the whole HYS argument was extended to everyone in the "T14"?  Again, I did not take from bros' posts that focusing on competition was the way to get ahead in law school...just wanted to make that clear.

P.S. Thank you answering my question, bros!  I really think that the practicing route is the way I am going to be approaching this!

[bros]

aagain, you're TOTALLY exaggerating what i am saying and projecting your idea of a gunner, library book stealer, classmate fucker over.

I'm not exaggerating what you said.  You said that it is "important" to do "ANYTHING you can do to give yourself an advantage over your classmates" (emphasis YOURS).  You said that you shouldn't focus on "learning the law/material" but rather focus on "BEATING your classmates" (emphasis again YOURS).  Moreover, one should focus on "doing things that will put you ahead of them" (whatever that is).  You said that all of this should be a law student's "primary goal" (thus ahead of things like doing the best you can, getting good grades, getting a good job, having a fun time, making friends, building a network of future colleagues, etc.)

I'll assume that you simply overstated your thoughts.  But I still stand by my point: focusing on the competition isn't good advice for future law students.  This is true regardless of where you are.  You still don't seem to get my central point: If you do the best that you can in a competition against yourself, you will do just as well as if you're thinking about beating out your classmates.  Do you get this?  Obviously, you have to know the material better than the other guys to get a good grade.  But you have NO CONTROL over that, unless you resort to gunnerish douchebaggery.

You're right that A's aren't given out like candy, as they often are in college.  But you're wrong that this means you need to "do anything you can" to hurt your classmates.  My suggestion for future law students is that they keep their mental frame of reference on THEMSELVES, not on their classmates.

furthermore, you go to a school where competition is less important because the quality employers will go VERY deep into the class, so you really have a different experience, don't you?

Before, you implied Columbia students DID need to be cutthroat to get ahead, since they're outside of the HYS.  I'll assume that you just overstated your belief there too.
You are totally right that just about anyone can get a biglaw job paying market from CLS.  To this extent, there's a little less pressure in my experience.  And no doubt a lot less of this cutthroat competition.  Regardless, Columbia students still want to do well.  Regardless of job prospects, no one likes getting a B-.  And there are still limited numbers of Law Review spots, prestigious clerkships, academic awards, etc.  So even students at higher ranked schools feel the need to do well.  But I think the point is that you can do well without targeting fellow students as your enemy.

bros, I'm sure you're a nice guy.  I don't want to imply you're a gunner or a feminine hygiene product or anything.  But I want to emphasize a take-away point for those actually looking at this thread for advice: don't let yourself be consumed by competition.  You can do just as well by focusing on working hard and doing the best you can, and will be all the better for it.  Perhaps you can agree to that premise?

i was exaggerating when i said that you need to be cutthroat competitive outside of hys. when i said hys, i meant it to imply hys and schools like hys, where the environment is less competitive because everyone is pretty sure they can get a decent job.

and to me, beating other students is an essential part of getting good grades, getting a good job, and doing the best you can. and it's not mutually exclusive with making friends and networking.

i'm sharing my personal philosophy and experience. if you want to give advice of your own, do it in your own thread.

[bros]

Can I just say that I am not really concerned about the other students in the class, but "competing" with myself and doing the best I know that I can do...so hopefully my question concerning taking practice exams was not seen as someone who misunderstood this.  Or someone who will potentially try to out do my classmates.

I am not quite understanding the disagreement here though, but I believe it is because the other "T14" schools were not mentioned along with HYS, by bros.  So will the back and forth cease if the whole HYS argument was extended to everyone in the "T14"?  Again, I did not take from bros' posts that focusing on competition was the way to get ahead in law school...just wanted to make that clear.

P.S. Thank you answering my question, bros!  I really think that the practicing route is the way I am going to be approaching this!

it's fine, it's just the general LSD belief that competitiveness shouldnt exist in law school and to a large extent doesnt exist in law school. as a former regular around here, i took this mentality into LS and i got a rude awakening. a lot of this is promulgated by t14 students because its not as important for them to be as close to the top of the class as they can be.

It's very disingenuous to slam people who are sharing their personal experience in law school simply because some posters dont want to face the fact that things are the way they are at certain law schools. the loyola 2l thread comes to mind...

[dat_raw_n_tellect]

lol yeah I realized a while ago that this site can be bad for your health...and potentially your grades!    I try to weave through the "fluff" to get to the good stuff!  Thank you again for posting!  I consider this good stuff 

[bros]

lol yeah I realized a while ago that this site can be bad for your health...and potentially your grades!    I try to weave through the "fluff" to get to the good stuff!  Thank you again for posting!  I consider this good stuff 

sure man. where are you going?

[likewise]

Okay.  Here's a different perspective that worked out just fine for me. 

I go to Temple, which is ranked 60 now, I think.  Some 1L sections this year were more competitive than others.  Mine was viewed as the most studious, but not the most competitive.

I think that the marathon approach, suggested by a one above, wouldn't work for me.

So, here's what I did:

1) Just feel out your profs during the first few weeks of the semester.  Read enough of the material to not look like an ass, but that's enough.  Don't brief--just mark the rule(s) and the holding(s) in the margin.
2) About a month in, draft up a skeleton outline of the class. Lose it.
3) For the next two months, read less if the prof's style allows, more if otherwise.
4) Stop reading for the last two weeks.  Spend the last two weeks and the week(ish) reading period writing your outlines, reviewing them with a study group, and discussing old exam questions.  Use old outlines to fill gaps in your own; use E&E to get the big picture when it escapes you.

This method requires about 10 hours outside of class during the semester and 60 hours per week during the three weeks before the exam.  This is the sprint approach.  Ask yourself, "Am I a marathoner or a sprinter?"