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Author Topic: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions  (Read 5486 times)

bros

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2007, 02:29:48 AM »
the harsh reality is that the grade curve is based on how you do relative to your classmates - not yourself. So, quite literally, your grades are based on how well you do relative to your classmates, and if you want good grades, you need to make an effort to do better than the majority of your classmates, and i just feel like people should know that.

This is obviously true.  You are graded relative to others. There's no disputing that and you should be aware of it.  BUT why focus on it?  Why make cutting down others your goal when you can instead focus on working hard, learning everything you can, and doing the best you can do?

You believe the key to success in law school is:
1. Do "ANYTHING you can" to get an advantage on your fellow students
2. Focus on "beating out your classmates" rather than "learning the law/material"
3. Make your "primary goal" getting "ahead of" everyone else

In what way will that lead to more success than "doing the best you can do"?  You can't do any better than your best even if you focus on the joys of screwing over others.  That is, unless your plan is to use cutthroat measures to sabotage your classmates.

For the sake of the people who have to be around you during law school and the sake of your own sanity, I recommend that law students focus on working HARD, and doing the BEST they can do.  Don't focus on the competition.  Don't do "anything you can" to get an advantage over them.  Focus on learning the law, not beating out classmates.  Make doing as well as possible your primary goal, not doing better than your classmates.

to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

ColumbiaJD

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2007, 02:44:59 AM »
to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

My point is this: someone who makes an effort to do his best will do no worse than someone who makes an effort to do better than his classmates.  But the former student will be all the better for avoiding hyper-competitive gunnerdom.

I understand grades are important.  But I don't think you should do "ANYTHING you can" to prevent a student from getting a better grade than you.  I think you shouldn't "focus on beating out your classmates" when you could be focused on doing well on your own terms.  And of course, why should your frame your primary goal be "beating out your classmates" when you can just as well frame it as "get the highest grades you can" or "do as well as you possibly can."  In a sense, it's a matter of semantics--but I think it's also a matter of mentally framing your position.  You're likely to be much happier and healthier if you don't focus on competition.  And of course, you're going to be much more enjoyable for your classmates to be around if you're not viewing them as your arch enemies.

bros

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2007, 03:14:11 AM »
to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

My point is this: someone who makes an effort to do his best will do no worse than someone who makes an effort to do better than his classmates.  But the former student will be all the better for avoiding hyper-competitive gunnerdom.

I understand grades are important.  But I don't think you should do "ANYTHING you can" to prevent a student from getting a better grade than you.  I think you shouldn't "focus on beating out your classmates" when you could be focused on doing well on your own terms.  And of course, why should your frame your primary goal be "beating out your classmates" when you can just as well frame it as "get the highest grades you can" or "do as well as you possibly can."  In a sense, it's a matter of semantics--but I think it's also a matter of mentally framing your position.  You're likely to be much happier and healthier if you don't focus on competition.  And of course, you're going to be much more enjoyable for your classmates to be around if you're not viewing them as your arch enemies.

tomato, tomato.

btw well done on completely hyperbolizing everything i said and also putting it through an LSD filter so that you actually say almost the same thing as I but making it less harsh-sounding. props, for real.

whoneedsanABA

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2007, 03:33:15 AM »
just wondering...are you attending a school that rhymes with "vastings" located in a city that rhymes with "fan clancisco?"
it may come down to fordham v. hastings...

bros

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2007, 03:34:11 AM »
just wondering...are you attending a school that rhymes with "vastings" located in a city that rhymes with "fan clancisco?"

no. and isnt UC hastings in HASTINGS?

pastor of muppets

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2007, 04:16:22 AM »
I thought you couldn't have a myspace page once you hit the age of 19?   ???

ColumbiaJD

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2007, 07:32:10 AM »
to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

My point is this: someone who makes an effort to do his best will do no worse than someone who makes an effort to do better than his classmates.  But the former student will be all the better for avoiding hyper-competitive gunnerdom.

I understand grades are important.  But I don't think you should do "ANYTHING you can" to prevent a student from getting a better grade than you.  I think you shouldn't "focus on beating out your classmates" when you could be focused on doing well on your own terms.  And of course, why should your frame your primary goal be "beating out your classmates" when you can just as well frame it as "get the highest grades you can" or "do as well as you possibly can."  In a sense, it's a matter of semantics--but I think it's also a matter of mentally framing your position.  You're likely to be much happier and healthier if you don't focus on competition.  And of course, you're going to be much more enjoyable for your classmates to be around if you're not viewing them as your arch enemies.

tomato, tomato.

btw well done on completely hyperbolizing everything i said and also putting it through an LSD filter so that you actually say almost the same thing as I but making it less harsh-sounding. props, for real.

It's more than just "tomato, tomato."  I think the two mental frames of reference are TOTALLY different and have TOTALLY different effects on your psyche, your relationships, and your law school success. 

I am not saying "almost the same thing as you."  YOU are saying that a successful law school cuts down others at any costs and spends all is time seething over the success of others.  YOU are saying that you should ignore trivialities like "the law" and "the materials" and think about whatever it takes to get ahead of your classmates.  I, on the other hand, think that you should work together and build friendly relationships with your classmates.  I think a successful law student will bend over backwards to help his fellow students do well and succeed.  I think you should ignore the competitive aspects, and instead focus on that pesky "learning" that takes a backseat with your philosophy.

Your hyper-competitive mental frame of reference will lead to envy, jealousy, hatred, and other vile thoughts which can do nothing but make one miserable.  It will also lead to you getting branded as a feminine hygiene product and a gunner by people who could be your friends and colleagues.  Ultimately, it just might get you to do worse because you're too busy thinking of how to sabotage others than to simply do well yourself.

Towelie

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2007, 10:12:59 AM »
there is a HUGE f-ing difference between a gunner and a good student. wait until you guys go through your first year. law school is more competitive than you think. if you want to just cruise through LS and bank your future on the fact that someone on LSD says that most really successful lawyers werent at the top of their class, go for it. Enjoy your B minuses. Have fun at OCI.

I'm already done my 1L and I still disagree with what you have to say.

As far as having fun at OCI, I will! Thanks!
Penn Law '09

bros

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2007, 12:06:15 PM »
I thought you couldn't have a myspace page once you hit the age of 19?   ???


why would you think that?


and it's not my myspace page.

bros

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Re: law student, just got done with 1L, taking questions
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2007, 12:10:46 PM »
to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

My point is this: someone who makes an effort to do his best will do no worse than someone who makes an effort to do better than his classmates.  But the former student will be all the better for avoiding hyper-competitive gunnerdom.

I understand grades are important.  But I don't think you should do "ANYTHING you can" to prevent a student from getting a better grade than you.  I think you shouldn't "focus on beating out your classmates" when you could be focused on doing well on your own terms.  And of course, why should your frame your primary goal be "beating out your classmates" when you can just as well frame it as "get the highest grades you can" or "do as well as you possibly can."  In a sense, it's a matter of semantics--but I think it's also a matter of mentally framing your position.  You're likely to be much happier and healthier if you don't focus on competition.  And of course, you're going to be much more enjoyable for your classmates to be around if you're not viewing them as your arch enemies.

tomato, tomato.

btw well done on completely hyperbolizing everything i said and also putting it through an LSD filter so that you actually say almost the same thing as I but making it less harsh-sounding. props, for real.

It's more than just "tomato, tomato."  I think the two mental frames of reference are TOTALLY different and have TOTALLY different effects on your psyche, your relationships, and your law school success. 

I am not saying "almost the same thing as you."  YOU are saying that a successful law school cuts down others at any costs and spends all is time seething over the success of others.  YOU are saying that you should ignore trivialities like "the law" and "the materials" and think about whatever it takes to get ahead of your classmates.  I, on the other hand, think that you should work together and build friendly relationships with your classmates.  I think a successful law student will bend over backwards to help his fellow students do well and succeed.  I think you should ignore the competitive aspects, and instead focus on that pesky "learning" that takes a backseat with your philosophy.

Your hyper-competitive mental frame of reference will lead to envy, jealousy, hatred, and other vile thoughts which can do nothing but make one miserable.  It will also lead to you getting branded as a feminine hygiene product and a gunner by people who could be your friends and colleagues.  Ultimately, it just might get you to do worse because you're too busy thinking of how to sabotage others than to simply do well yourself.


again, you're TOTALLY exaggerating what i am saying and projecting your idea of a gunner, library book stealer, classmate fucker over. i'm not that guy. All i am saying is that in order to get a good grade, you not only have to know the material, but know it better than the other people you are being compared to, and to keep that in mind. by no means should anyone 'cut down' other people or have a xenophobic mentality. i made a lot of good friends in my section; i spent a lot of time helping out other classmates and making sure they understand the material. for instance: i spent a full 3 days helping my friend understand joinder when i could have been doing my own studying. all i am saying is that you cant expect to just know the material pretty well and swing an A- like many people could in undergrad.

furthermore, you go to a school where competition is less important because the quality employers will go VERY deep into the class, so you really have a different experience, don't you?