The Black Men Thread

[Journeyman]

If the game is dirty then don't play it transcend it..social movements are not built based on electoral votes but on organizing people behind issues...

Bottom line you don't have to be in electoral politics to make change and just the fact that he went on a path towards the executive branch already shows he has compromised a lot. He is not in  the pursuit of social justice, he is in pursuit of the U.S. presidency.

I don't believe there has ever been a major social movement that did not involve the electoral process.

The End of Slavery - the election of Abraham Lincoln which triggered the civil war.

Women's Suffarge - the 19th Amendment

Civil Rights - the Civil Rights Act 1964

Regardless, there is no absolute path to social change. You can fight through peace demonstrations like MLK; You can fight through the courts like Thurgood Marshall; You can just fight like Malcom X 
 

Obama is not the political leader I would ask black people to support because in the end he has to cater to other peoples intrest.

Who are these other people and what are their interests?

How about the french revolution? the hatian revolution? the cuban revolution?  and all the examples you stated did not come from a original idea from the person in the elected position.  the end of slavery started with the abolishnest movement (even lincoln himself said if he could preserve the union and keep slavery he would do it)

Womens sufferage again by the sufferage movement (organized people behind a issue), civil rights..the same.   It involved the electoral process because it was the only way of making it legitmate in this country's laws.  There is no absolute path to social change;however, I question anyone who tried to change the system from within the electoral process ..one can't swim in a ocean of oil expecting to come out white as snow.


Okay..and I'm wondering why I'm not studying for my LSAT ...

Not the best examples if you ask me....Just ask Cubans today how well that went...seriously ask them. Half of them are in this country now.


MLK may have been QUASI-socialist...but in his speech he said, "and one day..." not "the next day..."


Oh yea, and I'm stoked about law school!   Madness, where are you going?

[FrankWhite]

I'll be starting this fall as well.  Can't wait.

Where again?

[FrankWhite]

Oh and what are yall going to do when you graduate? My eventual goal is politics. I'll probably do the corporate thing for a couple years to get some money and experience then hope over to DOJ or something like then. Then I'll work my way up the ranks to become a governor or something. 

[Journeyman]

USGAO/US Attorney/or Legislative work.

[Rudy Huckleberry]

ask barack the next time you see him (if he comes to your area on a speaking tour) If he would issue a executive order to outlaw racial profiling...I can guarantee you his answer would be no..

ACLU of Illinois Announces Full Support for Legislation to Study Racial Profiling (1/17/2000)

To remedy the problem of racial profiling in Illinois, the ACLU is endorsing a proposal, Senate Bill 1324 filed last week by state Senator Barack Obama (D-Chicago), requiring all law enforcement agencies in the state to gather and report data about the race and ethnicity of all motorists they stop for traffic violations - whether police issue a citation or warning. The information about traffic stops would be collected at the county level and reported to the Illinois Secretary of State, whose office will analyze the data for trends and make a report about evidence of racial profiling to the General Assembly.

why because it is not politically advantageous for him to do so..

"Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama says his campaign has raised $25 million in the first three months of this year." (Hearld Globe, 4/4/07)


Looks like it's working out for him.

checkmate

Not really. The problem with Obama is that he won't do in the national eye what he did in Chicago. In 2000, he was also publicly aligned with his minister - but what a difference seven years and a need to appeal to a different set of voters makes. Of the Obama of 2000 were running for president, I'd support him. Until then, I'm with Edwards.

[LadyKD]

Question to everyone calling Tavis a farce and having negative things to say about a group of black people coming together to talk about issues they deem important: are there any black people doing anything positive to help out our communities?  Or are they all just anonymous grass roots people, or named Barack Obama?

I don't think it's negative, but it is what it is-People talking. It's purely inspirational. No implementable plan for success. Just people talking.

I want to be an idealist for a minute. What if at the next SOBU they actually focused on a specific city like D.C.? Instead of inspirational talk, established goals in education, crime, and economic empowerment for the next year. Lobby for change. Then move on to the next concentration of black people.

How about less talk and more action period...lobbying is fine but lets go one better...how about in the city they choose to discuss they go in and actually make the changes. You know instead of during the back to school rush giving out plastic bookbags and school supplies how about buying some books? I mean it cost them money to fly into the city...find a location, hotels, etc. So how about just going to the community schools not the school board but the principals and with open checkbooks say what do you really need. Then make it happen. How about painting a school over the summer break, buying or repair desk and tables and chairs and broken doors? How about instead of all the pity poor us..why not the empower us. Say fine we will do it ourselves. Like Reign said...Be the change...

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

preponderance of evidence? all I see cited is draft legislation from the upper chamber. My argument was based on his response to a question. The question was "If you were president of the United States would you issue a executive order to make racial profiling illegal"

But why would any president make an executive order to make something illegal that is already illegal?

I have not seen anything posted that has answered the stated question.  I never said he would NEVER take a stand on racial issues. I said his stance on racial issues would only go so far. (just like Bill Clinton) hence I believe he would not do what my question states simply for the fact that it would be far to "radical" for a democrat trying to become the U.S. president to do. (Now if someone post something that says he would pass the executive order then I stand corrected).  No emotion is behind my statements just looking for the "evidence" (and I didn't need law school to learn that)   If this was the LSAT I would be looking for "the most correct answer" and it would not be what has been supplied thus far.

If that is your standard of review then your question will never be answered.  You're seeking to judge a man on actions that he cannot possibly take yet, and arriving at a conclusion that is not supported by the available evidence in front of you.  Don't look at what may be done, look at what has been done already.








But this is the Black Men Thread so rather than continue to beat this horse to death we can agree to disagree and move on to the next talking point for the fellas.

Oh and what are yall going to do when you graduate? My eventual goal is politics. I'll probably do the corporate thing for a couple years to get some money and experience then hope over to DOJ or something like then. Then I'll work my way up the ranks to become a governor or something. 

Good plan.  I could see myself doing something similar.  Pimping the firm for experience and resources until I branch off and start my own commercial real estate company. I'd like to be a developer.  Perhaps stack some chips and then jump into politics.  Who knows.

[7S]

How about the french revolution? the hatian revolution? the cuban revolution?  and all the examples you stated did not come from a original idea from the person in the elected position.  the end of slavery started with the abolishinest movement (even lincoln himself said if he could preserve the union and keep slavery he would do it) the civil war happened because of  a economic issue with the North wanting to make money from the south..not because they were looking to stop slavery. (in fact I remember reading about this in Howard Zinn's book A peoples history of the united states)

We all know of Lincoln's true intent with regards to the slaves. However, it was the South's fear of his being elected that led to sucession and prompted the civil war.

However, I'm not arguing cause. You stated that "you don't have to be in electoral politics to make change." You are partly right because all social movements are propagated by social activists. Nonetheless, the electoral process always plays a part. Hence, my statement that "there has ever been a major social movement that did not involve the electoral process."

The French Revolution ended with a French democracy complete with an electorate. And as Journeyman points out, one should only look to current day Cuba and Hati, and then ask why so many are trying to immigrate into this country.

[Journeyman]

Question to everyone calling Tavis a farce and having negative things to say about a group of black people coming together to talk about issues they deem important: are there any black people doing anything positive to help out our communities?  Or are they all just anonymous grass roots people, or named Barack Obama?

I don't think it's negative, but it is what it is-People talking. It's purely inspirational. No implementable plan for success. Just people talking.

I want to be an idealist for a minute. What if at the next SOBU they actually focused on a specific city like D.C.? Instead of inspirational talk, established goals in education, crime, and economic empowerment for the next year. Lobby for change. Then move on to the next concentration of black people.

How about less talk and more action period...lobbying is fine but lets go one better...how about in the city they choose to discuss they go in and actually make the changes. You know instead of during the back to school rush giving out plastic bookbags and school supplies how about buying some books? I mean it cost them money to fly into the city...find a location, hotels, etc. So how about just going to the community schools not the school board but the principals and with open checkbooks say what do you really need. Then make it happen. How about painting a school over the summer break, buying or repair desk and tables and chairs and broken doors? How about instead of all the pity poor us..why not the empower us. Say fine we will do it ourselves. Like Reign said...Be the change...

The problem with this is an issue of resources....not monetary, we can always find that. Time resources.  How many people would honestly be willing to give up their "hard earned free time" to do this.  It's just like politics....I don't "have the time" to actually do the door to door work; I'll just write a check.

Find a large group of AA's who would be willing to do what you propose, and I'll be pleasantly surprised...hell, I'd even join in.

[7S]

How about less talk and more action period...lobbying is fine but lets go one better...how about in the city they choose to discuss they go in and actually make the changes. You know instead of during the back to school rush giving out plastic bookbags and school supplies how about buying some books? I mean it cost them money to fly into the city...find a location, hotels, etc. So how about just going to the community schools not the school board but the principals and with open checkbooks say what do you really need. Then make it happen. How about painting a school over the summer break, buying or repair desk and tables and chairs and broken doors? How about instead of all the pity poor us..why not the empower us. Say fine we will do it ourselves. Like Reign said...Be the change...

agreed.