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Author Topic: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants  (Read 15648 times)

1654134681665465

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In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« on: May 04, 2007, 09:42:25 PM »
I am posting this under this thread b/c I didn't quite know where else to put it.  Currently there are over 20 states that offer in-state tuition to illegal immigrants.  To me this seems totally unfair that someone who is not even a citizen of this country gets in-state tution, while an American citizen has to pay out of state tuition.  Thoughts, comments, reactions?  Does anyone think that this is a good idea?  Please explain. 

aerynn

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 09:56:21 PM »
Under Plyler v. Doe, the court held that education, although not a fundamental right, was important to the long-term success of an individual as becoming a productive member of society.  In that case, the state imposed a fee on illegal immigrants attending public school, that it didn't on citizens or documented immigrants.

Other states have held that there is a fundamental right to an education in their STATE constitution.  There are several state cases to that effect, e.g. Serrano v. Priest, Abboot v. Burke, Tennessee Small School Systems v. McWherter.  If it is a fundamental right, it cannot be denied without passing strict scrutiny. 
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naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 09:58:00 PM »
I don't yet understsand all the legal implications surrounding this issue, but hopefully one day I will.  In the meantime, I simply disagree.  I'm all for the rights of legal immigrants to go after their share of the American dream, but I do not think that there should be unfair accommodations made for illegal immigrants.
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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2007, 10:14:18 PM »
I can tell you, right or wrong, that one of the arguments in favor of this involves situations where children are moved to the United States at a young age. Under at least some of the laws the undocumented citizen must have attended high school and lived for X number of years in the States. Hypothetically, this person could graduate high school only to realize that they are not the documented citizen they thought they were. Essentially, you are punishing the child for the parent's mistakes, something which is highly uncommon (if not non-existent) in our legal system. Also, at least in the state I'm familiar with, it is a highly uncommon occurence. Anyway, just putting it out there.

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2007, 10:27:55 PM »
I can tell you, right or wrong, that one of the arguments in favor of this involves situations where children are moved to the United States at a young age. Under at least some of the laws the undocumented citizen must have attended high school and lived for X number of years in the States. Hypothetically, this person could graduate high school only to realize that they are not the documented citizen they thought they were. Essentially, you are punishing the child for the parent's mistakes, something which is highly uncommon (if not non-existent) in our legal system. Also, at least in the state I'm familiar with, it is a highly uncommon occurence. Anyway, just putting it out there.

I've heard of this.  There was a bill pending where people who either served in the military or who got a bachelor's degree could apply to become legal citizens even if they are undocumented as children.

The benefits are not just to the undocumented immigrants, but to their kids, who like it or not are here to stay.  By denying them the right to an education, we are creating a permanent underclass of people who are unable to meaningfully participate in society.  In the case of children, especially, they did not break the law intentionally or even knowingly.  This isn't about awarding illegal behavior, but preventing a huge burden on society.  An educated member of society has a better chance of being a productive member of society, one who can contribute meaningfully. 
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1654134681665465

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2007, 12:37:42 AM »
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By denying them the right to an education, we are creating a permanent underclass of people who are unable to meaningfully participate in society.

I'm not saying that we should deny them an education, I am just saying that they shouldn't be given in-state tuition.  In-state tuition in California ($20,000+) is much more expensive than out-of-state tution in Utah ($14,000).  So there are still many options that illegal immigrants have when going to school, I just don't think that an illegal immigrant should be given a government subsidized education. 

As a part of this, can someone be considered a citizen of a State and not of the U.S.? 

Quote
lso, I don't follow your logic.  States shouldn't give in-state tuition to people who've lived in those states because they don't distribute those benefits to people who've never contributed to those states?

They may have lived in those states, but not LEGALLY.  In fact, they aren't legal citizens of ANY state.  I go to school outside of California, and there were several hoops I had to jump through to get residency so that I could pay in-state tuition. 

As for children who were brought here when they were young, it is truly unfortunate that they have to suffer the consequences of their parents mistakes.  However, LEGALLY there are no exceptions.  I might be unfair to them, but it is also unfair that the wonderful people of Africa have to suffer so much more than any Mexican, Central, or South American.  Famine, cruel governments, war, and genocide to a degree that has never been seen south of the U.S. border has plagued that continent for years. 

How is it fair that they have to go through the arduous process to come to the U.S. (or Europe) LEGALLY, while 12 million others cut in front of them because they have easier access to the U.S.? 

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 12:44:26 AM »
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By denying them the right to an education, we are creating a permanent underclass of people who are unable to meaningfully participate in society.

I'm not saying that we should deny them an education, I am just saying that they shouldn't be given in-state tuition.  In-state tuition in California ($20,000+) is much more expensive than out-of-state tution in Utah ($14,000).  So there are still many options that illegal immigrants have when going to school, I just don't think that an illegal immigrant should be given a government subsidized education. 

As a part of this, can someone be considered a citizen of a State and not of the U.S.? 

Quote
By denying them the right to an education, we are creating a permanent underclass of people who are unable to meaningfully participate in society.

They may have lived in those states, but not LEGALLY.  In fact, they aren't legal citizens of ANY state.  I go to school outside of California, and there were several hoops I had to jump through to get residency so that I could pay in-state tuition. 

As for children who were brought here when they were young, it is truly unfortunate that they have to suffer the consequences of their parents mistakes.  However, LEGALLY there are no exceptions.  I might be unfair to them, but it is also unfair that the wonderful people of Africa have to suffer so much more than any Mexican, Central, or South American.  Famine, cruel governments, war, and genocide to a degree that has never been seen south of the U.S. border has plagued that continent for years. 

How is it fair that they have to go through the arduous process to come to the U.S. (or Europe) LEGALLY, while 12 million others cut in front of them because they have easier access to the U.S.? 

whatever.  "fairness" is just some *&^% that someone made up. 
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1654134681665465

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 01:00:39 AM »
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whatever.  "fairness" is just some sh*t that someone made up.

Is this just general disagreement with the idea of fairness or are you specifically referring the plight of Africans, illegal immigrants, or U.S. citizens paying out-of-state tuition?

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2007, 01:02:28 AM »
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whatever.  "fairness" is just some sh*t that someone made up.

Is this just general disagreement with the idea of fairness or are you specifically referring the plight of Africans, illegal immigrants, or U.S. citizens paying out-of-state tuition?

it's not a general disagreement with the idea so much as a suggestion that "fairness" isn't a very useful analytical tool.
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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 01:16:16 AM »
How is state university-level education subsidized for residents of a state -- is it funded through (or as a result of) taxpayer's money? 

If so, illegal immigrants may pay taxes in the form of a state sales tax and/or in the form of a state income tax (often automatically withheld from paychecks), which should entitle them to in-state tuition in their state of residency.

Just throwing this out there -- Perhaps someone else knows more about this?
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