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Author Topic: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants  (Read 14932 times)

Slim

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #120 on: June 22, 2007, 10:05:07 AM »
why limit deportation to illegal immigrants?  there are broad categories of people whose deportation would be beneficial to the country.  seriously, let's ship them all somewhere else. 
Yea! You go first ;)
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson.

philibusters

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2007, 10:23:55 PM »
why limit deportation to illegal immigrants?  there are broad categories of people whose deportation would be beneficial to the country.  seriously, let's ship them all somewhere else. 

Sounds a little like the death penalty.  If they are that bad, we do get rid of them. whether that is a good idea or bad idea is debateable.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

wellpreserved

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2007, 11:30:39 AM »
Just another example of illegal immigrants being an burden on our education system.  And think about all of the money wasted on ESL programs?  This, when schools are begging for more money to fund the education of regular students. 

While I'm no propenent of immigration, legal or no, per se I thought we should clarify this issue of the cost of ESL. While it varies wildly from district to district, eliminating ESL expenditures would not "fix" the shameful underfunding of our public school systems. In fact, if the percentages of money spent directly on a child versus the money spent to maintain a beaurocracy were to hold steady, then eliminating ESL would only go to hire a new assistant to the assistant superintendent of toilets -- not exactly of benefit to the nice legal (wasp-ish?) child in public schools.

I just caution those of us who would maybe one day half way attempt to support the law not to create legal "beasts of burden" in an attempt to support our feelings on an issue. It does a disservice to the people AND your arguement.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

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Lindbergh

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2007, 03:33:37 PM »
Essentially, you are punishing the child for the parent's mistakes, something which is highly uncommon (if not non-existent) in our legal system. Also, at least in the state I'm familiar with, it is a highly uncommon occurence. Anyway, just putting it out there.


I think you're confused.  You're not punishing them for their parent's mistakes.  You're just not rewarding them for it either.

Lindbergh

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2007, 03:36:02 PM »
It certainly makes sense to me to provide all citizens and legal immigrants with an education.  I don't know if this is somehow a "right" we're "entitled" to, but it's simply good policy.

Illegals are another matter entirely.  If they're not supposed to be here, they shouldn't be draining public resources in any regard. 

If they want to change the immigration laws to provide for more flexible immigration, that's fine.  Until then, illegals shouldn't be recieving public benefits.  And they certainly shouldn't be recieving lower tutition than citizens.

krystal82

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #125 on: June 27, 2007, 09:53:52 PM »
The primary purpose of In-state tuition is to subsidize the cost of education to make more affordable to those that would otherwise not have the opportunity to attend college. Legal residents and citizens can opt to attend their state school, so at least in theory they do have the same right. Illegal immigrants are technically not residents of any state; however by obtaining physical residency in a state, they can be seen as de facto residents. However, my concern is not the fact they are entitled to this right, but more so the fact that it is good policy. Let's be realistic, to deport 12 million immigrants isn't feasible nor is likely to ever be so. By taking on the cost to educate these people, we are preventing a group from becoming what could possible become detriment to our society (crime, poverty). Perhaps if legislation that allows some means of conditional residency is eventually established, (the only viable solution as I see fit as opposed to mass deportation) they will be productive educated residents rather than a bigger burden. It’s an investment, and while it may encourage further illegal immigration, I still see it as the lesser of two evils. 

On a different note, a previous post discussed a friend who here illegally but in law school. How is this possible? Wouldn’t they not be able to sit for the bar? I suppose law school doesn’t necessarily equate with becoming a lawyer, but I find it difficult to believe someone would incur that much debt only to not be able to practice.

saz

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2007, 10:24:11 AM »
A Modest Proposal: Send Undocumented Students Home

by Rick Jacobs

Thursday afternoon at Cal State LA, my good friend Erika Glazer joined with progressive heroes Congresswoman Hilda Solis, State Senator Gil Cedillo and Assembly member Hector de la Torre to kick off a major fund to send undocumented students home. The first five students were given a mighty lift on their journey today. You see, we welcomed these smart, tough, determined fighting kids, who have been in the US since they are were as young as one or as old as about ten, to America, because that IS home.

Erika endowed a scholarship program to the tune of $1 million to the Liberty Hill Foundation in Los Angeles last December to assure that the playing field is leveled for at least five undocumented students every year here in California. She did that because she had just finished the process of filling out myriad college applications for her son. She realized that scholarships exist for nearly every "specialty" on the planet, except that undocumented kids are specifically excluded from most and never mentioned in any. If you are Jewish, Catholic, Lutheran, of Irish, Italian, Indian or Israeli decent, if your family hails from Egypt or Syria or Pakistan, if you like math, but don't spell so well, if your dad went to Yale and your mom was a hippie, if you teach horses to count, dogs to speak or birds to swim, you can get a scholarship. But if you are "undocumented," you can work for $6.25 an hour at Burger King.

Sounds fair to me. After all, these kids made the mistake of being born to parents who moved them as babes to the land of opportunity. They planned it out really carefully, just like I planned to be born queer and my sister planned to lose her hearing. That's what kids do; they wait around in the womb until just the right moment to decide their future and then they plague society. (Oh, sorry, that'll get us into the whole stem cell thing and that's for another time.)

Five young men yesterday stood proud and spoke in perfect, unaccented, American English to tell their stories. Two had gotten straight As at Belmont High, one had gone to the downtown magnet school. One of them said that he had gotten such high grades and test scores, that he'd gotten into three University of California schools (think UCLA and Berkeley) and two Cal States. He was delighted when he got the letters of admission, but he was shocked that there was no financial aid. His parents make minimum wage. He has worked a job during high school, but there was no way he could begin to afford college. He thought that, at age 18, he faced a lifetime of minimum wage jobs rather than having a shot at the American dream, at the California dream, at improving society.

His guidance counselor told him about the new Glazer Scholarships. She drove his application to Liberty Hill. Two weeks later he got a full scholarship to Cal State LA. He stopped during his talk, he stopped to cry. It took him a minute to gain his composure, although those of us in the room never did. This fellow was a year old when he arrived in LA. California law requires him to finish twelve grades of education. He did that. But California law then prevents him from getting any help going to college. Go figure. Teach a man to fish, but then take away the water. Sounds good to me.

Most of these kids want to study math and engineering. They want to teach and lead and live in America. Watching them, I could see that they'd be about as comfortable in Mexico or El Salvador as I would in Ukraine, where my grandparents came from.

The immigration issue is thorny and divisive. Along with other forms of the politics of division, it's used by demagogues on the right to scare us, to tell us that somehow these kids will take our jobs and ruin our lives. Sixty years ago, those same sorts of politicians told us that Jews coming to the US would soil our nation, somehow reduce America to a pointy-nosed oligopoly. Even though such low lives as Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard and Edward Teller made it beyond the gates of prejudice, millions more perished in the flames of Nazi Germany.

Over the past decade or so, the gay community has received the benefit of the descendents of the Ku Klux Klan, always robed in the religion of hate, determined to sell us on the idea that a couple of guys down the street would somehow destroy the most powerful country in the history of the world. The only destruction that has occurred is from the far right that teaches its acolytes it is far better to hide and repress oneself than to live and give the most to our America.

These five kids will be doctors and engineers and scientists in a nation that produces fewer and fewer technically competent professionals while China and India graduate more of those self same engineers and scientists than we have kids in college studying anything. They are the new blood of a gene pool that reinvents America every two generations or so and keeps us at the top of the world. I'm really not sure what to do about immigration in the future, but having met these boys yesterday, having seen a school that takes risks to lead in its community, there's no doubt in my mind that national security comes from teaching and relying upon those that we have among us. Each student in turn said, "I don't want special privileges; I want an equal opportunity."

I want the America that brought my grandparents here, that kept my parents from being gassed and that allowed me to flourish, even though I'm not straight, white and protestant. I want the American dream that is a tapestry that gains strength from diversity, not existence from tolerance or power from hatred. I want the America that creates an Erika Glazer, who takes great privilege and assures that our future rests squarely in the minds and hands of those who are most determined to make it strong. That's the America I watched yesterday at Cal State LA and that's the America that will, singularly, deal with the buffeting of globalization we face as the world flattens.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/a-modest-proposal-send-_b_31635.html?view=print

HtownsFinest

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2007, 06:24:05 PM »
Its not just corruption. The US has deliberately created harder economic situations in many countries. Much of the current immigration is linked to NAFTA, a US sponsored treaty.  Maybe instead of persecuting people, we should stop screwing around with other countries and then complaining about the results
LOL @ econ-n00b

HtownsFinest

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2007, 06:27:37 PM »
Even with the U.S. "screwing" around with other countries, there is SO MUCH corruption south of the border.  Such corruption (created for and by those governments) is destroying economies and keeping foreign companies from investing in their country. 

Not to mention that those same governments WANT illegal immigration to continue.  They get rid of the poorest, most uneducated, the unemployed, and the indigenous.  In return they gain billions of dollars in remitances.  This is just another example of the U.S. being blamed for the problems of other countries. 
Very true. Also, consider that the world's richest person lives in Mexico. Carlos Slim.
And yes, the Mexican govt. has more or less explicity endorsed illegally emigrating to the US.

HtownsFinest

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Re: In-State Tuition for Illegal Immigrants
« Reply #129 on: July 20, 2007, 06:34:12 PM »


A 1st grader does not wake up in the morning thinking: "I'm going to go to a foreign country to steal and identification and to live off of the tax payers there while living under the radar.".
LOL Ignorance of the law =/= innocence.