Law School Discussion

The Truth about the Pay Gap

Johnny Stuffs His Mouth

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2007, 07:18:40 PM »
wow, people are passionate about this topic, huh?

I'm not, really. I just thought I was watching an argument where the two sides were arguing about different things, and that's not going to get us anywhere. Really it's kind of pointless to argue about which is worse: they're both horrible, they both happened. End of story.

Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2007, 07:23:13 PM »
wow, people are passionate about this topic, huh?

I'm not, really. I just thought I was watching an argument where the two sides were arguing about different things, and that's not going to get us anywhere. Really it's kind of pointless to argue about which is worse: they're both horrible, they both happened. End of story.

Wow, I am way too drunk to read this whole thread, but how did the holocaust get broken out, out of curiosity, seems a little out of bounds, no?

Johnny Stuffs His Mouth

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2007, 07:25:48 PM »
wow, people are passionate about this topic, huh?

I'm not, really. I just thought I was watching an argument where the two sides were arguing about different things, and that's not going to get us anywhere. Really it's kind of pointless to argue about which is worse: they're both horrible, they both happened. End of story.

Wow, I am way too drunk to read this whole thread, but how did the holocaust get broken out, out of curiosity, seems a little out of bounds, no?

I don't remember. Something about Holocaust : slavery :: segregation : gender pay gap. I think.

Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2007, 07:26:44 PM »
wow, people are passionate about this topic, huh?

I'm not, really. I just thought I was watching an argument where the two sides were arguing about different things, and that's not going to get us anywhere. Really it's kind of pointless to argue about which is worse: they're both horrible, they both happened. End of story.

Wow, I am way too drunk to read this whole thread, but how did the holocaust get broken out, out of curiosity, seems a little out of bounds, no?

your mom is out of bounds.

oh wait, no she isn't.

Janice Baylor is a saint, a saint, you got me?

GraphiteDirigible

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2007, 07:31:23 PM »
So now the argument has turned toward a normative comparison of two atrocities based on quantifying the unquantifiable. Suffering cannot be measured solely by the number of years a person faces pain, adversity, or unfavorable conditions. Does the man who has a crap job (slave to the company store) suffer more over his whole like than a person who burns alive for 15 minutes? The truth is we can't know. It is all based only on that persons particular experience. Take, for example, the idea that people born into a system, with no basis to compare their lives to better circumstances, will be less likely to even see a problem with their current state of affairs. Or conversely, the burning man, cam take solace in knowing it will be over soon.

Any comparison between these two problems is destined to fail. There is not enough similarity to make a comparison, let alone make a value judgement. Apples and oranges.
 

GraphiteDirigible

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2007, 07:32:44 PM »
Besides, the truth about the gay pap has nothing to do with any of this stuff.

Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2007, 07:34:07 PM »
So now the argument has turned toward a normative comparison of two atrocities based on quantifying the unquantifiable. Suffering cannot be measured solely by the number of years a person faces pain, adversity, or unfavorable conditions. Does the man who has a crap job (slave to the company store) suffer more over his whole like than a person who burns alive for 15 minutes? The truth is we can't know. It is all based only on that persons particular experience. Take, for example, the idea that people born into a system, with no basis to compare their lives to better circumstances, will be less likely to even see a problem with their current state of affairs. Or conversely, the burning man, cam take solace in knowing it will be over soon.

Any comparison between these two problems is destined to fail. There is not enough similarity to make a comparison, let alone make a value judgement. Apples and oranges.
 

What is Jewish People?

AlphaBusey

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2007, 07:43:05 PM »
So now the argument has turned toward a normative comparison of two atrocities based on quantifying the unquantifiable. Suffering cannot be measured solely by the number of years a person faces pain, adversity, or unfavorable conditions. Does the man who has a crap job (slave to the company store) suffer more over his whole like than a person who burns alive for 15 minutes? The truth is we can't know. It is all based only on that persons particular experience. Take, for example, the idea that people born into a system, with no basis to compare their lives to better circumstances, will be less likely to even see a problem with their current state of affairs. Or conversely, the burning man, cam take solace in knowing it will be over soon.

Any comparison between these two problems is destined to fail. There is not enough similarity to make a comparison, let alone make a value judgement. Apples and oranges.
 

Well, for me this is kind of just an ancillary point.  We're all going to be lawyers here, so, some of us at least just like to argue.  For me I think it's still all rooted in intent, not really any sort of quantification of any kind.  Because you're right, there's no way to do that.  For instance, an argument I hear a lot about the death penalty: Some argue that's it's actually more of a punishment to live out a natural life in confinement than it is to die.  So maybe the Holocaust is rather merciful in comparison to slavery, if you follow that line of reasoning to its conclusion.

But I don't know.  John's right in that, in the end, both are terrible, in that you'd get far from half way through "quantifying" either one before you threw your hands up and said enough is enough, I'm going to shoot myself if I get any more depressed.  But to take this in another direction: Both genocide and slavery are still around today.  And while I consider the Holocaust a little different than genocide, the two are at least comparable.  So really, what have we learned?

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2007, 07:46:19 PM »
So now the argument has turned toward a normative comparison of two atrocities based on quantifying the unquantifiable. Suffering cannot be measured solely by the number of years a person faces pain, adversity, or unfavorable conditions. Does the man who has a crap job (slave to the company store) suffer more over his whole like than a person who burns alive for 15 minutes? The truth is we can't know. It is all based only on that persons particular experience. Take, for example, the idea that people born into a system, with no basis to compare their lives to better circumstances, will be less likely to even see a problem with their current state of affairs. Or conversely, the burning man, cam take solace in knowing it will be over soon.

Any comparison between these two problems is destined to fail. There is not enough similarity to make a comparison, let alone make a value judgement. Apples and oranges.
 

What is Jewish People?

Oh no you don't.

GraphiteDirigible

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Re: The Truth about the Pay Gap
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2007, 07:49:53 PM »
So now the argument has turned toward a normative comparison of two atrocities based on quantifying the unquantifiable. Suffering cannot be measured solely by the number of years a person faces pain, adversity, or unfavorable conditions. Does the man who has a crap job (slave to the company store) suffer more over his whole like than a person who burns alive for 15 minutes? The truth is we can't know. It is all based only on that persons particular experience. Take, for example, the idea that people born into a system, with no basis to compare their lives to better circumstances, will be less likely to even see a problem with their current state of affairs. Or conversely, the burning man, cam take solace in knowing it will be over soon.

Any comparison between these two problems is destined to fail. There is not enough similarity to make a comparison, let alone make a value judgement. Apples and oranges.
 

Well, for me this is kind of just an ancillary point.  We're all going to be lawyers here, so, some of us at least just like to argue.  For me I think it's still all rooted in intent, not really any sort of quantification of any kind.  Because you're right, there's no way to do that.  For instance, an argument I hear a lot about the death penalty: Some argue that's it's actually more of a punishment to live out a natural life in confinement than it is to die.  So maybe the Holocaust is rather merciful in comparison to slavery, if you follow that line of reasoning to its conclusion.

But I don't know.  John's right in that, in the end, both are terrible, in that you'd get far from half way through "quantifying" either one before you threw your hands up and said enough is enough, I'm going to shoot myself if I get any more depressed.  But to take this in another direction: Both genocide and slavery are still around today.  And while I consider the Holocaust a little different than genocide, the two are at least comparable.  So really, what have we learned?

That this kind of argument is like pissing in the wind. It gets too messy.

or

Humankind is capable of tremendous evil.