Rutgers-N vs. Seton Hall

[sprintflash]

Got a Dilemma......
Rutgers tution (because I cna get in state) is very attractive...Everyone I met was nice and personable.....Nice little enclave of a campus for being in the middle of Newark...

Seton Hall- For some reason just the name attracts me....To my suprise (didn't even notice it existed) I was accepted into the P/T DAY PROGRAM.......Seton is alitte more expensive (maybe an understatement) and little diversity...

In all honesty, I am still on a  waitlist @ GMU, American, and Washington and LEE. but was very impressed with both Rugers and Seton when I visited. Being that a deposit is due for Rutgers in the coming week, I am just tyring to get suggestions from people...

[Nickledime85]

Rutgers, for sure. Seton Hall is far too expensive for its current rank and average starting salary. Plus, it would be ideal to go FT as opposed to PT. Rutgers is admittedly in a worse part of Newark, but I think that while both schools are regional, it has a better overall reputation than Seton Hall.

[sprintflash]

ok..yeah see as a person outside of the NYC/NJ/Phili area, I don't know much about comparing the reputation. Thanks for the help though...Everyone please contribute

[joewillie]

Look at the fine print on your Rutgers deposit.  I believe most of it is refundable if you withdraw by August or thereabouts.  It's proably worthwile to put it down and see if you get in to any of your other schools. 

 

[Iceslip]

Look at the fine print on your Rutgers deposit.  I believe most of it is refundable if you withdraw by August or thereabouts.  It's proably worthwile to put it down and see if you get in to any of your other schools. 

 

You're right; if you withdraw by July, I believe you get $200/$300 back; if by August, $100/$300 back.

I was contemplating this decision as well, but honestly Rutgers-N is the way to go: while Seton Hall is a few spots higher in ranking, it doesn't mean anything; Rutgers-N has more pull/prominence due to its historically higher ranking...Thus, the alumni network is very extensive.  Now, there is definitely more pull in NYC for Rutgers-N, but minimally (at Rutgers-N, you have to be ~10% of class for NYC, whereas Seton Hall, maybe 5-8% at worst).  However, it seems that almost ALL Seton Hall grads not placing in the top quarter who are trying for NYC are stuck in document review; Rutgers seems to have a little (albeit slightly) more opportunity in NYC.  As for NJ, both schools place "well" (if you are in the top half-top third at least) in NJ; I think Rutgers-N, however, has a slight edge due to the history.  Also: Seton Hall has a higher clerkship rate.

While Seton Hall is closer to Penn Station, Rutgers-N is only about 9 min. further walk.  I chose Rutgers for its slide edge in career prospects and also much better cost.  However, one must keep in mind with these schools that BOTH will require top quarter at worst to have even DECENT job chances...You will read about staggering clerkship rates which the schools' career services office will brag about, but keep in mind that the "clerkships" people do from SH and RU isn't hte same thing as those from Chicago, Yale right...those are "real" clerkships with state and federal supreme court judges, etc.; From the NJ schools, many of those clerkships are due to students' inability to find a job upon graduation and needing something to pay the bills...they are totally useless clerkships like local traffic court dispute clerkships in suburban NJ which do nothing to advance your career nor visibility/appeal to employers

Go with Rutgers-N.

[sprintflash]

You must currently be attending Rutgers-N....Do you like it?

[«ě»]

Iceslip doesn't go to Rutgers, he works for their PR-department. At least it seems so at times

[dukedogalley]

 
[/quote]

You're right; if you withdraw by July, I believe you get $200/$300 back; if by August, $100/$300 back.

I was contemplating this decision as well, but honestly Rutgers-N is the way to go: while Seton Hall is a few spots higher in ranking, it doesn't mean anything; Rutgers-N has more pull/prominence due to its historically higher ranking...Thus, the alumni network is very extensive.  Now, there is definitely more pull in NYC for Rutgers-N, but minimally (at Rutgers-N, you have to be ~10% of class for NYC, whereas Seton Hall, maybe 5-8% at worst).  However, it seems that almost ALL Seton Hall grads not placing in the top quarter who are trying for NYC are stuck in document review; Rutgers seems to have a little (albeit slightly) more opportunity in NYC.  As for NJ, both schools place "well" (if you are in the top half-top third at least) in NJ; I think Rutgers-N, however, has a slight edge due to the history.  Also: Seton Hall has a higher clerkship rate.

While Seton Hall is closer to Penn Station, Rutgers-N is only about 9 min. further walk.  I chose Rutgers for its slide edge in career prospects and also much better cost.  However, one must keep in mind with these schools that BOTH will require top quarter at worst to have even DECENT job chances...You will read about staggering clerkship rates which the schools' career services office will brag about, but keep in mind that the "clerkships" people do from SH and RU isn't hte same thing as those from Chicago, Yale right...those are "real" clerkships with state and federal supreme court judges, etc.; From the NJ schools, many of those clerkships are due to students' inability to find a job upon graduation and needing something to pay the bills...they are totally useless clerkships like local traffic court dispute clerkships in suburban NJ which do nothing to advance your career nor visibility/appeal to employers

Go with Rutgers-N.
[/quote]

no SH love huh? 

[thewanderer01]

With the search function still gone....here are some links to recent threads about this dilemma:

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,85603.msg2116728.html#msg2116728
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,84084.msg2055650.html#msg2055650
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,81142.0.html

[mgoblue85]

If you want to go into Health Law, consider Seton Hall.  They have a top program.  It may be worth the extra money if that's what you're into. 

Other than that, I too am shocked by Seton Hall's astronomical tuition.  T2s should not be in the business of charging nearly 40k/year.  The standard rate is 30k.  If you're a NJ resident, RU-Newark will only cost you 20k.  The out of state tuition is below 30k.  So in terms of price, RU-Newark wins hands down over SHU.  It's the same education for a fraction of the price.

If you look carefully at LSN, you'll realize that SHU's strategy is to give huge scholarships to students of a certain caliber (161, 3.5 seems to be the starting point).  Below that (and I was barely below that), you get nothing.  The goal, presumably, is to attract top students and have other students flip the bill of the law school and the top students.  Problem is, if your LSAT/GPA is 163/3.5 or above, you will probably have other options, and you wouldn't even consider SHU despite their scholarship offer.  Also, for NJ residents, RU-Newark's counter offers equalizes the price for the two schools if SHU gives you the 27k/year offer and RU-Newark gives you the 8k/year offer.  So essentially, SHU will get a small number of good students, and a correspondingly high number of the 156-158 students who are rejected from RU-Newark (SHU's standards appear to be slightly lower than RU-Newark's, based on LSN, which of course is not scientific).  This is not a good strategy because SHU's reputation is not there yet. Keep in mind, Ru-Newark has a history, and their reputation is still there for law firms.  This policy has arrogance written all over it.

There are several observations about RU-Newark that are pretty consistent.  First, it's their reputation.  It used to be steller, much like Rutgers University, but has declined in recent years (along with Rutgers University).  I sensed that there are internal debates right now about reviving the law school's rankings, and I think it centers on the fact that they affirmative action students.  URMs represent 25% of Ru-Newark's student population, way higher than SHU's number, which is 10%.  The standard for most schools is 10-15%.  RU-Newark's URM population, and long LSAT band (154-162), suggest the school loves affirmative action.  RU-Newark also admits a lot of older students, who may also have lower credentials (and they could be of any race).  If they simply get rid of affirmative action (both race based and age based), or reduce it to the levels most other schools are using, I would not be surprised if their numbers improved.  Of course, it is possible that all the URMs at RU-Newark have the same credentials as non-URMs, but general trends suggest this is not the case.  And, of course, I do not mean to imply that URMs at RU-Newark are somehow less worthy, or that I am opposed to affirmative action (I take a middle road).