Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead  (Read 9634 times)

theprocrastinator

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #180 on: April 17, 2007, 11:44:40 AM »
There are a couple ways to answer this:

1) Yes. The constitution says so, therefore we must.

2) Yes. There is no reason not to have legalized gun possession. In fact, most violent crimes committed with a firearm are committed using black-market, unregistered weapons, no amount of legislating will take those guns away from people determined to cause trouble. You can legislate all you want, but there is a point where you have to consider that someone willing to break one law (murder) will likely have no issue with breaking another law (firearm possession).

Ultimately, you will eliminate very little crime, while taking firearms away from the majority of people who use them responsibly for recreation and self-defense.

A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England, where guns are largely banned. Not to mention murder rates and even rates of violent crime using guns are on the rise in countries with firearms restrictions.

If I want to buy a gun right now, there is a waiting period and a background check. Anyone who gets a gun legally, has hopefully been checked out as a relatively safe and responsible person. I'm not worried about that guy. I'd venture to guess that an NRA member is less likely than anyone else to shoot someone.

I don't own a gun myself, but I can't stand kneejerk politics. If you want to stop people from being shot, get rid of the black market guns, not the legally-purchased ones.

Well, the cops have apparently said that at least one of the guns used in this particular incident was purchased by the shooter legally. That doesn't change the fact that most gun crimes overall are committed with unregistered firearms, but it does illustrate the point that in these suicide rampage killings the shooters have no reason to care whether or not their guns are registered in their own names. Maybe this kid wouldn't have ammassed all of those guns if he had to go out on the streets to find them and would have just killed himself and his girlfriend while the 30 other victims went about their day peacefully.

Furthermore, even though most of the guns used in shootings are unregistered, they were manufactured and put into the stream of commerce legitimately. If manufacturing and selling guns were illegal, there would be far less guns making it to the black-market. I'm pretty certain that most black-market arms dealers don't manufacture their own merchandise. Sure the effect would be slow, because of all the existing guns, but there is no room to doubt that the overall number of illegal guns would decline, rather than rise as it is now.

As far as the burglary stuff goes, that is interesting, but in my view a higher rate of burglaries while people are at home isn't a bad trade-off for a lower murder/gun violence rate. Its the lesser of two evils. Also, gun violence may be increasing in countries with restrictions, but it still pales in comparison to what's been going on in our country for a long time now.

...I hate knee-jerk politics too, and I do have some empathy for recreational gun users and responsible gun-owners, but at some point we have to admit that we have a serious problem with gun violence in this country and need to find a new approach to dealing with it.

skillerj

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
  • You want to eat?
    • View Profile
    • LawSchoolNumbers
    • Email
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #181 on: April 17, 2007, 11:53:55 AM »
I realize this is late and off-topic-ish....

RIP to the people killed by this tragedy.... :'(

At times like this I wonder - is it really necessary to legalize gun possession?

There are a couple ways to answer this:

1) Yes. The constitution says so, therefore we must.

2) Yes. There is no reason not to have legalized gun possession. In fact, most violent crimes committed with a firearm are committed using black-market, unregistered weapons, no amount of legislating will take those guns away from people determined to cause trouble. You can legislate all you want, but there is a point where you have to consider that someone willing to break one law (murder) will likely have no issue with breaking another law (firearm possession).

Ultimately, you will eliminate very little crime, while taking firearms away from the majority of people who use them responsibly for recreation and self-defense.

A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England, where guns are largely banned. Not to mention murder rates and even rates of violent crime using guns are on the rise in countries with firearms restrictions.

If I want to buy a gun right now, there is a waiting period and a background check. Anyone who gets a gun legally, has hopefully been checked out as a relatively safe and responsible person. I'm not worried about that guy. I'd venture to guess that an NRA member is less likely than anyone else to shoot someone.

I don't own a gun myself, but I can't stand kneejerk politics. If you want to stop people from being shot, get rid of the black market guns, not the legally-purchased ones.

It seems that there is more random shootings/massacres like this at countries where gun possession is legalized. Black markets flourish when there is more supply for arms. It seems natural to think that there would be more "spilling" of weapons to the black market when legal arms are "stolen" or "lost".
Apparently I don't know much about how the system works, but I based my arguments by comparison between countries that legalize gun possessions and those who don't.

kirkcameronsgf

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3400
  • Ever since I can remember, I been poppin' my colla
    • View Profile
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #182 on: April 17, 2007, 12:20:45 PM »
http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2323722472&ref=mf

http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2313477111&ref=mf

and some of the people who died are shown here (amazingly tacky URL and morbid theme, but their pictures are here): http://mydeathspace.com/article/2007/04/16/32_people_were_killed_at_Virginia_Tech_University_on_April_16,_2007

I seriously need to stop clicking on the first two links b/c everytime I look at the pictures, I burst into tears.

EEtoJD

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4185
  • Football!!!
    • View Profile
    • LSN
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #183 on: April 17, 2007, 12:23:07 PM »
http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2323722472&ref=mf

http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2313477111&ref=mf

and some of the people who died are shown here (amazingly tacky URL and morbid theme, but their pictures are here): http://mydeathspace.com/article/2007/04/16/32_people_were_killed_at_Virginia_Tech_University_on_April_16,_2007

I seriously need to stop clicking on the first two links b/c everytime I look at the pictures, I burst into tears.

 :'( I actually teared up, and I don't cry. Pretty much ever. One exception: the Futurama episode with Fry's dog. OK, another: Willy Wonka (the end, where he hugs Charlie).  :-\
I can't believe these obnoxious Michigan students, who use the board not to share information, but to socialize (as pathetic as that is)

LSN</

kirkcameronsgf

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3400
  • Ever since I can remember, I been poppin' my colla
    • View Profile
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #184 on: April 17, 2007, 12:24:24 PM »
http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2323722472&ref=mf

http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2313477111&ref=mf

and some of the people who died are shown here (amazingly tacky URL and morbid theme, but their pictures are here): http://mydeathspace.com/article/2007/04/16/32_people_were_killed_at_Virginia_Tech_University_on_April_16,_2007

I seriously need to stop clicking on the first two links b/c everytime I look at the pictures, I burst into tears.

 :'( I actually teared up, and I don't cry. Pretty much ever. One exception: the Futurama episode with Fry's dog. OK, another: Willy Wonka (the end, where he hugs Charlie).  :-\

I didn't used to cry at anything, but I cry at the drop of a hat nowadays.  I sobbed over a "Clean Sweep" episode just last week.

(That was a good Futurama episode.  The end..  where the dog just sat there waiting??  Saaaad.)

kirkcameronsgf

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3400
  • Ever since I can remember, I been poppin' my colla
    • View Profile
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #185 on: April 17, 2007, 01:55:16 PM »
No offense, but will the people wanting to argue for or against gun control please desist or start their own thread?

For realz.

Ever162

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 200
  • SMU 1L
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #186 on: April 17, 2007, 02:08:16 PM »
It's a hard day.  :(
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the One.
Born to bear and bring to all, the details of our ending.
To write it down for all the world to see.
But I forgot my pen.

Jolie Was Here

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2404
  • 3L. Meh.
    • View Profile
    • LSN
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #187 on: April 17, 2007, 02:20:35 PM »
I just learned that one of the victims is an alum from my high school.   :'( I was already pretty shaken up, but this somehow makes it more striking.  I'm not trying to claim a piece of the tragedy or anything - she was probably in 1st grade when I graduated, so it's not as though I had a personal connection.  But I guess it's just human nature...tragedy affects us more viscerally when it hits close to home.   
I was referring to your intellectual penis. Which is quite robust.

Jolie is creeping up on me. 

Zam

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3096
    • View Profile
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #188 on: April 17, 2007, 02:23:27 PM »
It's so incredibly sad to hear about the people who were killed yesterday; you hear a brief biography of a young, smart and hard working person like Ryan Clark and think what a tragic waste it is that he will never get a chance to be a part of our future.

EEtoJD

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4185
  • Football!!!
    • View Profile
    • LSN
Re: VA Tech shooting - more than 20 dead
« Reply #189 on: April 17, 2007, 02:40:14 PM »
http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2323722472&ref=mf

http://unlv.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2313477111&ref=mf

and some of the people who died are shown here (amazingly tacky URL and morbid theme, but their pictures are here): http://mydeathspace.com/article/2007/04/16/32_people_were_killed_at_Virginia_Tech_University_on_April_16,_2007

I seriously need to stop clicking on the first two links b/c everytime I look at the pictures, I burst into tears.

 :'( I actually teared up, and I don't cry. Pretty much ever. One exception: the Futurama episode with Fry's dog. OK, another: Willy Wonka (the end, where he hugs Charlie).  :-\

I didn't used to cry at anything, but I cry at the drop of a hat nowadays.  I sobbed over a "Clean Sweep" episode just last week.

(That was a good Futurama episode.  The end..  where the dog just sat there waiting??  Saaaad.)

Um... the show where they clean your house? Were they cleaning the house of a leukemia-stricken 7-year-old girl with Chron's disease or something?

Yup, where he just sat there. Sorry to do this to you, but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akf-H0OVpLA

 :'( :'( :'(
I can't believe these obnoxious Michigan students, who use the board not to share information, but to socialize (as pathetic as that is)

LSN</