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Author Topic: Just really frustrated about the lack of unrepresented minority at law schools..  (Read 22783 times)

mugatu

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My comprehension is fine.  You have repeatedly said that AA is fine so long as no one "takes my spot."  That would make this discussion about you.

In any case, have fun at Yale!
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mugatu

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violating the 14th amendment through AA

Eh?  Come again?

That was in the middle of some sentence I wrote earlier.  I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was just trying to state my opinion that AA programs at state schools violate the Constitution.

How?

I believe it violates the equal protection clause.

Well, yes, that part is obvious.  How?
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mugatu

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violating the 14th amendment through AA

Eh?  Come again?

That was in the middle of some sentence I wrote earlier.  I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was just trying to state my opinion that AA programs at state schools violate the Constitution.

How?

I believe it violates the equal protection clause.

Well, yes, that part is obvious.  How?

Without launching into a huge explanation, AA discriminates on the basis of race.  That seems to me to be a violation of the Equal Protection Clause, and I believe that many schools use a quota system under the guise of looking for "diversity" in the students they admit.

What right is being violated?  (And there isn't usually a quota system.  It's a number bump.)
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mugatu

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violating the 14th amendment through AA

Eh?  Come again?

That was in the middle of some sentence I wrote earlier.  I don't remember exactly what I said, but I was just trying to state my opinion that AA programs at state schools violate the Constitution.

How?

I believe it violates the equal protection clause.

Well, yes, that part is obvious.  How?

Without launching into a huge explanation, AA discriminates on the basis of race.  That seems to me to be a violation of the Equal Protection Clause, and I believe that many schools use a quota system under the guise of looking for "diversity" in the students they admit.

What right is being violated?  (And there isn't usually a quota system.  It's a number bump.)

The right to equal protection of the laws.  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by number bump.

What laws?

--

Especially for undergrad institutions (large, state schools) it is reasonable to assume (I don't really know) that everyone goes into the database with easily quantifiable data.  This will generate a number.  If the school is practicing AA, the number is given a bump up.
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Astro

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Perhaps one of my conditions should be that AA be allowed, as long as society admits that it is being lazy and there could be many better solutions to the problems with education in America. 




Hence me saying you're not being sincere.

This sentence displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the principles guiding AA.
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mugatu

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As for the laws, I don't know exactly how to make the leap from "laws" to a University, which obviously doesn't pass laws, except to say that as far as I know, it is accepted that the Equal Protection Clause applies to state schools' AA policies.  In Bakke and the Michigan cases, I don't think anyone was arguing that state universities don't have to abide by the 14th amendment.  Of course I could be wrong, but that was my general understanding.  Some stuff about instrumentalities, etc. that I don't yet understand.

There's no doubt that the equal protection clause applies to the states (and their schools.)

However, in order to violate the equal protection clause, you have to show that AA policies are in violation of the laws of the United States.  (The equal protection clause makes the US constitution applicable to the states.)  Other than that, states can do whatever they want.
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Qui Ju

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violating the 14th amendment through AA

Eh?  Come again?

 
To clarify what I said originally, if someone has worked their butt off and has better qualification than me, I will tip my hat and accept defeat.  If their qualification are not as good as mine, but they take someone else's spot because he or she didn't work hard enough or just wasn't smart enough to get high enough scores, I have no problem with that--my spot is the one that I said is not up for grabs.  Maybe my statement was not as clear as it could have been.  I wasn't making reference to someone who has not worked--I was referring to someone who has worked, but just not hard enough to be able to claim something of mine.

1. You don't have a spot until a school elects to admit you.  HTFH.

2. You're one to talk about other people's sloppy grammar and typos on a message board.  Was your sentence structure just too complex for Word's grammar check to pick all that up?

this what you meant?

Qui Ju

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Dude, you are having a problem with comprehension, and are thus trying to impugn my character in an attempt to sidestep the argument.  

"if i'm being unclear, it's YOUR fault."  :D

Miss P

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There's no doubt that the equal protection clause applies to the states (and their schools.)

However, in order to violate the equal protection clause, you have to show that AA policies are in violation of the laws of the United States.  (The equal protection clause makes the US constitution applicable to the states.)  Other than that, states can do whatever they want.

Er, not exactly.  It's the DPC through which the Bill of Rights has (mostly) been incorporated.  Furthermore, state statutes and administrative decisions (such as admissions and hiring decisions at the public universities) are reviewable under the EPC.

Nonetheless, the state of the law now, as bosco surely knows, is that law school affirmative action programs that give individualized, holistic review to applications with the aim of creating diverse class are constitutional.  Thus, a throwaway line about "violating the 14th Amendment through AA" is just inflammatory and dishonest rhetoric.
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Qui Ju

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There's no doubt that the equal protection clause applies to the states (and their schools.)

However, in order to violate the equal protection clause, you have to show that AA policies are in violation of the laws of the United States.  (The equal protection clause makes the US constitution applicable to the states.)  Other than that, states can do whatever they want.

Er, not exactly.  It's the DPC through which the Bill of Rights has (mostly) been incorporated.  Furthermore, state statutes and administrative decisions (such as admissions and hiring decisions at the public universities) are reviewable under the EPC.

Nonetheless, the state of the law now, as bosco surely knows, is that law school affirmative action programs that give individualized, holistic review to applications with the aim of creating diverse class are constitutional.  Thus, a throwaway line about "violating the 14th Amendment through AA" is just inflammatory and dishonest rhetoric.

eh, he might honestly be unsure about it.  i mean gratz-grutter is kind of splitting hairs.