Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Just really frustrated about the lack of unrepresented minority at law schools..  (Read 22724 times)

leostrauss

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • The silence of a wise man is always meaningful.
    • View Profile
I was seriously joking. Sorry, sometimes such things don't come through well when typed (and my jokes are generally lame).

However, my mom - a feminist - says such terms when said from a male to a female seem condescending to her and patronizing . . . I don't get it.
…no bloody or unbloody change of society can eradicate the evil in man: as long as there will be men, there will be malice, envy and hatred, and hence there cannot be a society which does not have to employ coercive restraint.

– Leo Strauss, The City and Man, page 5

cowher101

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
    • Email
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

jillibean

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 874
  • I'm the pretty one.
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

I don't agree with that at all ( I hope you are just being sarcastic). It would forever tarnish the image of a black lawyer.
And how many black people do you know who play hockey? Sports is the one area where I don't think race matters- owners are trying to get the best team and make the most money-- if it's an all white team that is the best then so be it.
UMiami c/o 2010

struggles

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
I was seriously joking. Sorry, sometimes such things don't come through well when typed (and my jokes are generally lame).

However, my mom - a feminist - says such terms when said from a male to a female seem condescending to her and patronizing . . . I don't get it.

No, I knew you were joking...It could be seen as sexist and I would take it that way if it was from a male and if say it was in some sort of business or formal setting, but not if we had an informal friendly relationship.

struggles

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

Well thats probably going a little far, even for my taste, but not too far off. Its not really the schools fault I don't think, I'm sure that blacks and hispanics get preference because it looks good for the school to be diverse. In hindsight I would have applied to better schools and made it more known that I was Mexican had I known it was such a big deal to admissions.  I've gotten accepted to schools I shouldn't have...so makes we wonder how much my URM status really paid off. That said, I think its just more the injustices in our society that keep these minorities out, nothing overtly intentional on behalf of the schools themselves, at least one would hope. Its a problem that needs to be address way before people even get into high school...truthfully it never even dawned on me that I could go to law school or even college for that matter, until I was lucky enough to brush shoulders with people who told me I could and encouraged me to do it. Thats a part of whats missing for many minority and disadvantaged youth. They really are "disadvantaged" the term actually does mean something more then skin color.

This is wrong.

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 222
  • Dear LawDog3...
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

this is a pretty lame post.  you come off as pouty.  you can do better.

Guess who's coming to dinner?!?

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Don't call it a come back
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

this is a pretty lame post.  you come off as pouty.  you can do better.

First let me preface this with I, unlike most people of color,  did well on the LSAT. 

That being said I do think that there needs to be some sort of reality check about why students of color with sky high gpa's and low LSATS  can't get in to top schools.  I think attention needs to be paid from the start of a person of colors education--meaning look at the schools most of us went to!  From K-12 they are underfunded and poor in quality when you compare them to our white counter parts.  Even at school in the Bay Area regarded as "great" like Berkeley High--this place is actually two schools in one.  You have to test in to AP classes and students of color are often tracked in to classes that will not meet the admission course  requirements of UC or even CSUs.   So while making adjustments in comparing the LSAT scores for the students who are coming up now and applying to law school in the next 15 or so years is something we should do, imagine what would happen if the kids who are in pre-school/ kindergarten were given a quality education?  What if their parents were given parenting class on how to help your child be successful in their academic career?  What if they could afford healthy foods or even knew how to prepare them?  Yes I know there are poor white people as well, but when you're white and you work hard #1 you are more likely to score higher on standardized tests (statistically speaking, not because they are smarter)  and #2 once you work hard it is easier for you to get your foot in the door.  A man of color who is trying to catch a break through hard work can't tap in to the "good old boys" network ( that is present no matter what political party you are in)

The long term answer is not affirmative action BUT it is the best thing we can do right now.  In the long run what needs to be done is that our leaders and those in power (politicians, education admins, social workers, policy makers etc.) take a hard look at WHY these students aren't performing well on the LSAT and actually DO SOMETHING about it.  I know I plan to.

And to the poster who said that they are not a big fan of blaming society for problems....uhhh get real.  Black people still live in the land that enslaved them and racism still exists today. Several companies that reaped the benefits of slavery( i.e JPMorgan Chase and FleetBoston; insurance companies (e.g., Aetna and New York Life); railroads (Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific and CSX); tobacco companies (R.J. Reynolds, Brown & Williamson); and a textile manufacturer (WestPoint Stevens)

Or do you think that everything is fine and all are equal?  It is SOCIETY that creates the disparity between the quality of education students of color receive and that of their white peers...





There's no homework in Law School

leostrauss

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • The silence of a wise man is always meaningful.
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

this is a pretty lame post.  you come off as pouty.  you can do better.

First let me preface this with I, unlike most people of color,  did well on the LSAT. 

That being said I do think that there needs to be some sort of reality check about why students of color with sky high gpa's and low LSATS  can't get in to top schools.  I think attention needs to be paid from the start of a person of colors education--meaning look at the schools most of us went to!  From K-12 they are underfunded and poor in quality when you compare them to our white counter parts.  Even at school in the Bay Area regarded as "great" like Berkeley High--this place is actually two schools in one.  You have to test in to AP classes and students of color are often tracked in to classes that will not meet the admission course  requirements of UC or even CSUs.   So while making adjustments in comparing the LSAT scores for the students who are coming up now and applying to law school in the next 15 or so years is something we should do, imagine what would happen if the kids who are in pre-school/ kindergarten were given a quality education?  What if their parents were given parenting class on how to help your child be successful in their academic career?  What if they could afford healthy foods or even knew how to prepare them?  Yes I know there are poor white people as well, but when you're white and you work hard #1 you are more likely to score higher on standardized tests (statistically speaking, not because they are smarter)  and #2 once you work hard it is easier for you to get your foot in the door.  A man of color who is trying to catch a break through hard work can't tap in to the "good old boys" network ( that is present no matter what political party you are in)
The long term answer is not affirmative action BUT it is the best thing we can do right now.  In the long run what needs to be done is that our leaders and those in power (politicians, education admins, social workers, policy makers etc.) take a hard look at WHY these students aren't performing well on the LSAT and actually DO SOMETHING about it.  I know I plan to.

And to the poster who said that they are not a big fan of blaming society for problems....uhhh get real.  Black people still live in the land that enslaved them and racism still exists today. Several companies that reaped the benefits of slavery( i.e JPMorgan Chase and FleetBoston; insurance companies (e.g., Aetna and New York Life); railroads (Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific and CSX); tobacco companies (R.J. Reynolds, Brown & Williamson); and a textile manufacturer (WestPoint Stevens)

Or do you think that everything is fine and all are equal?  It is SOCIETY that creates the disparity between the quality of education students of color receive and that of their white peers...







My comment regards the above bolded text. I will make no statement about those arguments per se, but I will say this: A person who really made a point of relying on themselves and not pushing things off onto others (someone who never made excuses or shirked responsibility) would likely not make arguments like that. I am not saying anything about the poster above or about blacks in general . . . my point is that it is unlikely that someone with the characteristics I described - values personal responsibility, believes in themselves, doesn't make excuses - would make such args.

I think plenty of people who believe in AA and plenty of people who are for the Advancement of minorities generally do have the values I described (very self reliant, plenty of self confidence, plenty of brains/talent, work ethic, etc. and the tendency not to make excuses) I think that the majority society to a large extent profits from tricking minorities into playing victim and never really taking ownership of their own destiny. I think that if all of the talented black, hispanic, female, etc people in this country spent time encouraging independence, belief in themselves, self reliance, personal accountability, etc, it would be more helpful than ten thousand times as many of these pass the buck arguments that we hear all the time.

I just think that this sort of argument - even if it is factual and true - isn't the best or easiest path to success. Are you really gonna rely on this oppressive group of ppl to change suddenly and start listening to the victim story? Has that been effective in the past? I honestly think you're right about much of what you say, but I question whether it's gonna work. I think you are definitely on the right track with getting a JD and making a difference yourself! That's the key - no one can do anything about it then to hold you back - and you have control of your own destiny! The unbolded in the above post was inspirational and spot on - rant over
…no bloody or unbloody change of society can eradicate the evil in man: as long as there will be men, there will be malice, envy and hatred, and hence there cannot be a society which does not have to employ coercive restraint.

– Leo Strauss, The City and Man, page 5

This is wrong.

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 222
  • Dear LawDog3...
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

this is a pretty lame post.  you come off as pouty.  you can do better.

First let me preface this with I, unlike most people of color,  did well on the LSAT. 

That being said I do think that there needs to be some sort of reality check about why students of color with sky high gpa's and low LSATS  can't get in to top schools.  I think attention needs to be paid from the start of a person of colors education--meaning look at the schools most of us went to!  From K-12 they are underfunded and poor in quality when you compare them to our white counter parts.  Even at school in the Bay Area regarded as "great" like Berkeley High--this place is actually two schools in one.  You have to test in to AP classes and students of color are often tracked in to classes that will not meet the admission course  requirements of UC or even CSUs.   So while making adjustments in comparing the LSAT scores for the students who are coming up now and applying to law school in the next 15 or so years is something we should do, imagine what would happen if the kids who are in pre-school/ kindergarten were given a quality education?  What if their parents were given parenting class on how to help your child be successful in their academic career?  What if they could afford healthy foods or even knew how to prepare them?  Yes I know there are poor white people as well, but when you're white and you work hard #1 you are more likely to score higher on standardized tests (statistically speaking, not because they are smarter)  and #2 once you work hard it is easier for you to get your foot in the door.  A man of color who is trying to catch a break through hard work can't tap in to the "good old boys" network ( that is present no matter what political party you are in)

The long term answer is not affirmative action BUT it is the best thing we can do right now.  In the long run what needs to be done is that our leaders and those in power (politicians, education admins, social workers, policy makers etc.) take a hard look at WHY these students aren't performing well on the LSAT and actually DO SOMETHING about it.  I know I plan to.

And to the poster who said that they are not a big fan of blaming society for problems....uhhh get real.  Black people still live in the land that enslaved them and racism still exists today. Several companies that reaped the benefits of slavery( i.e JPMorgan Chase and FleetBoston; insurance companies (e.g., Aetna and New York Life); railroads (Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific and CSX); tobacco companies (R.J. Reynolds, Brown & Williamson); and a textile manufacturer (WestPoint Stevens)

Or do you think that everything is fine and all are equal?  It is SOCIETY that creates the disparity between the quality of education students of color receive and that of their white peers...

I really hope you weren't addressing me, because I'm way too lazy to read this entire thing.  Good job on the LSAT though.  I hear those play an important role in applications and such.

struggles

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Another thing that's been bothering me lately, being a baseball fan, why aren't there more black people in major league baseball? And if you really wanna talk about injustice, look at the NHL. Thats probably the most racist sports league in the world.

It starts with lawyers and we need more black lawyers in order to achieve the black vision.

Again, black students should be able to get into schools regardless of what they score on the LSAT. If you are black and you are looking to go to law school, that should be enough to ensure your place.

this is a pretty lame post.  you come off as pouty.  you can do better.

First let me preface this with I, unlike most people of color,  did well on the LSAT. 

That being said I do think that there needs to be some sort of reality check about why students of color with sky high gpa's and low LSATS  can't get in to top schools.  I think attention needs to be paid from the start of a person of colors education--meaning look at the schools most of us went to!  From K-12 they are underfunded and poor in quality when you compare them to our white counter parts.  Even at school in the Bay Area regarded as "great" like Berkeley High--this place is actually two schools in one.  You have to test in to AP classes and students of color are often tracked in to classes that will not meet the admission course  requirements of UC or even CSUs.   So while making adjustments in comparing the LSAT scores for the students who are coming up now and applying to law school in the next 15 or so years is something we should do, imagine what would happen if the kids who are in pre-school/ kindergarten were given a quality education?  What if their parents were given parenting class on how to help your child be successful in their academic career?  What if they could afford healthy foods or even knew how to prepare them?  Yes I know there are poor white people as well, but when you're white and you work hard #1 you are more likely to score higher on standardized tests (statistically speaking, not because they are smarter)  and #2 once you work hard it is easier for you to get your foot in the door.  A man of color who is trying to catch a break through hard work can't tap in to the "good old boys" network ( that is present no matter what political party you are in)

The long term answer is not affirmative action BUT it is the best thing we can do right now.  In the long run what needs to be done is that our leaders and those in power (politicians, education admins, social workers, policy makers etc.) take a hard look at WHY these students aren't performing well on the LSAT and actually DO SOMETHING about it.  I know I plan to.

And to the poster who said that they are not a big fan of blaming society for problems....uhhh get real.  Black people still live in the land that enslaved them and racism still exists today. Several companies that reaped the benefits of slavery( i.e JPMorgan Chase and FleetBoston; insurance companies (e.g., Aetna and New York Life); railroads (Norfolk Southern, Union Pacific and CSX); tobacco companies (R.J. Reynolds, Brown & Williamson); and a textile manufacturer (WestPoint Stevens)

Or do you think that everything is fine and all are equal?  It is SOCIETY that creates the disparity between the quality of education students of color receive and that of their white peers...







Yes Indeedy! Well said.