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Author Topic: MP's Thread, or how to get paid $75K to sit around: also known as UChicago 2010  (Read 416876 times)

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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The real question is whether far fewer means they'll stop hiring from local 3rd and 4th tier schools, decent tier I schools, and the T25s we hear so much about on these forums.

I hope so.  I don't think they'll necessarily cut back on the top schools.

Worse comes to worse, the market will hopefully be better by 2011.  In order to mitigate stress, I'm trying not to think of OCI as my one bite at the BigLaw apple.

buffettologie

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Oh, I completely agree. I'd certainly rather be a rising 2L at a T6 than anywhere else, that goes without saying. But I think it could also be true that firms just have so many people who are being completely underutilized now that they will be hesitant to bring more people into the pipeline when there is going to be a huge supply for years to come.

But I don't think that Fall OCI is going to be your one shot at the Biglaw apple. I think we're in for a paradigm shift that is beginning with firms like Orrick recruiting in the spring. I think in 3 years OCI will be later in the year and summer programs will be significantly shorter/different. I think you guys will land something even if it's not in the fall. I don't think you're screwed for the long-term, I'll just be curious to see what % of people get something in the fall.
U of C 2010

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The real question is whether BigLaw can ever return to its 2004-07 form.  Some people, unlike Nerfco, say "absolutely not" because the transactional work that they relied on will be gone.  I don't know enough about BigLaw practice areas to comment, but it seems like that would be central.  Maybe it was merely a bubble of work.

Classic collective action, no?  Howrey is screwing themselves because nobody wants 100k and "training" when they could have 160k and billing.  I don't even plan to interview with them or Biddle.

I want to see some of the TTTs get royally screwed ITE, if only to reduce the Law School tuition monster.  The JDUnderground types shouldn't be scammed.  That, or some legislative student loan reform.

ETA: Nerfco   ???

nerfco

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The real question is whether BigLaw can ever return to its 2004-07 form.  Some people, unlike Nerfco, say "absolutely not" because the transactional work that they relied on will be gone.  I don't know enough about BigLaw practice areas to comment, but it seems like that would be central.  Maybe it was merely a bubble of work.

Transactional work is simply down right now. It isn't as if VC/PE deals won't ever get done again or something. M&A isn't going to cease to exist.  If class sizes have to be cut by a third in the future because there's less work, I don't see that as a paradigm shift of any sort.

I want to see some of the TTTs get royally screwed ITE, if only to reduce the Law School tuition monster.

I hope students everywhere do well. I don't think there is a big correlation between tuition and starting salary at a V100 firm in schools where <5% even get into a V100 firm.

buffettologie

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The real question is whether BigLaw can ever return to its 2004-07 form.  Some people, unlike Nerfco, say "absolutely not" because the transactional work that they relied on will be gone.  I don't know enough about BigLaw practice areas to comment, but it seems like that would be central.  Maybe it was merely a bubble of work.

Classic collective action, no?  Howrey is screwing themselves because nobody wants 100k and "training" when they could have 160k and billing.  I don't even plan to interview with them or Biddle.

I want to see some of the TTTs get royally screwed ITE, if only to reduce the Law School tuition monster.  The JDUnderground types shouldn't be scammed.  That, or some legislative student loan reform.

ETA: Nerfco   ???


I don't necessarily think that transactions are never coming back, quite to the contrary. I just think that before they do there is going to be some serious contraction in the Biglaw world and there are literally thousands of very well qualified people ready, willing and able to do the jobs that you're hoping to get. The oversupply of similarly qualified people will lead to downward pressure on salaries, combined with pressure from clients etc.... same old story.

When we started this summer we had a presentation which showed the projected hours for all of the different offices of our firm. The slide wasn't given to us and it was only up on the screen for a minute, but the firm as a whole was off 40% in terms of hours from 2008 (not the best year ever). And I'm at a "safe" firm.
U of C 2010

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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I agree, but don't there still have to be different classes?  The 2011 BigLaw class may be smaller, but it still has to exist.  Although there are people ready and willing, they're third or fourth years, and it wouldn't make sense to hire them in lieu of younger associates.

On the other hand, I'm assuming that the lock-step model won't cease to exist -- another possibility.

Let's hope for student loan reform.

Hipcathobbes: of course I want contraction for self-interested reasons, but I also feel that law schools' reported salaries are fradulent, that these schools lure in unqualified applicants, and that they should cease to exist (or charge far less than their current rates).  People are already getting screwed with 120k in debt from TTTs.  If firms stop recruiting the top 10% of, say, Kent, it would mean the end of the model, and ultimately the best for all parties.

nerfco

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I agree, but don't there still have to be different classes?  The 2011 BigLaw class may be smaller, but it still has to exist. 

One word: deferrals. The class of 2011 doesn't have to exist, since we (c/o 2010) will be starting when you would, and the class of 2012 can start as normal. Obviously it wouldn't be that black-and-white though, since firms would realize they could pick up much higher-quality students than normal, etc.

That said, you'll all be fine. And by all, I mean most. Probably about the same number will be fine as in our class.

clairel

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I agree, but don't there still have to be different classes?  The 2011 BigLaw class may be smaller, but it still has to exist. 

One word: deferrals. The class of 2011 doesn't have to exist, since we (c/o 2010) will be starting when you would, and the class of 2012 can start as normal. Obviously it wouldn't be that black-and-white though, since firms would realize they could pick up much higher-quality students than normal, etc.

That said, you'll all be fine. And by all, I mean most. Probably about the same number will be fine as in our class.

also, plenty of people in my class are deferred until sometime next year or january of 2011. i think if you're close to the median and bid on a lot of firms (and figure out what to do and what not to do in interviews), you should be okay. i did around 30 interviews even though ocs recommends around 15, but i wanted the bay area.

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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January of 2011?  Nearly two years after graduation?  Wow.

Clairel: can you suggest what to do and what not to do in interviews?

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Just traded Drew Brees for Chris Johnson.  Taking questions.  (Still have Warner and Carson Palmer as QBs)