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Author Topic: Blacks and LSAT scores  (Read 5823 times)

marcusbarnes30

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Blacks and LSAT scores
« on: April 13, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »
Very few people have a nack for the lsat inherently and I am of the majority that don't. What I would like to convey in this post is simple...Black folks need to start investing in good lsat prep classes (i.e. powerscore and testmasters) like White folks. It shouldn't be a suprise at the margin of difference between our avg lsat and white folks based on our representation in these classes. I have been to both a testmaster and powerscore class (in washington d.c. mind you) and the lack of black representation was startling. This can probably be attributed to the $1200 price tag that goes along with this course, but whatever the case, it is money well spent. I consider myself a smart brother, but to say I was shocked when I took my first diagnostic test scoring a 142 would be an understatement. My most recent diagnostic was 166. That was no accident. The privied info and techniques you receive in these classes are mind boggling. By all means avoid Kaplan classes like the plague.
It should strike you as no suprise that those priviledged enough to have a parent pay for these classes do well on this exam, while those on the other end of the socioeconomic ladder have a less impressive performance. The haves will continue to have and the have nots will continue to struggle.

Louis55

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 10:38:47 PM »
What made you write this?  Maybe it’s because I just watched roots on TV1 but as a white male are you really trying to garner some form of sympathy from the black people on this board or maybe some kind of pat on the back for all your hard work…  “Look at me blacks, I am the poorest person on the internet, but I worked hard and took an LSAT prep course – why can’t you.” 

But obviously you must have fell short of your dreams because now you are upset.  You are thinking to yourself – “self… maybe if I was not white male I would have gotten into my dream school.”  And hey maybe you are right… just maybe.  But seriously what is the difference… Remember you will not always be poor but they will always be colored and confined to their racial condition.  The problems associated with being a person of color are not always about some white person discriminating against you.  There is a much deeper psychological battle involved in it too.   

And now for your question: “Did coming from a poor white family somehow help me achieve something fantastic that my eceonomically lacking non-white neighbors received?”  You answered “Absolutely not” but the real answer is yes – you’re white and a male.  This country was built on the backs of people of color at the direction of white males! In no way do I intend to pretend that there is some magically cult of whiteness that automatically gives every white person everything they desire but ur whiteness combined with ur maleness allows you to take advantage of a unique social system built for your advantage – even if you are poor(Bill Clinton came from a poorer white southern family without his real daddy to become president of the united states of America).  And what color and sex was the 5 president and 10 and the 20 and the last and the current one… all white males! No one ever polls the nation to see if they would vote for a white male to be president… instead these special people are judged by their character with no mention of their race.  Now take Barack or Hillary… “Will America elected a Black or Women president”  Maybe the answer will be yes, and the privileges of white maleness will begin to erode.  And when this starts to occur you come back here and I will be the first one to damn this country to hell for denying you affirmative action!

And just to make sure no Imus comments or duke lacrosse comments pop up… Go check your history books and see what happened to black and other minority males when they degraded or were accused of degrading white women.  Emmett Till was brutually murdered for the mere accusation of whistling at a white woman, so I think both the Duke players and Imus got off rather easy.   

I am for equality and justice but not until equality and justice is extend to those who have been denied it since their insertion into this country!

Will Hunting

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2007, 11:25:03 PM »
Correct, if I look at the HISTORY books, I will find these things.  History.  Granted, it hasn't been 50 years since Brown v Board was decided, but it does seem in our current society (or at least where I am in the south) that people are overly reactionary to racial comments.  Kanye West can come out and say that "White people should only make white music" but I gaurantee if Steve Yzerman came out and said "Black people should only play black sports," he would be lambasted.  Imus and Duke Lacrosse are irrelevant.  Several black comedians make a living mocking white males and their created attributes/characteristics.  There is a double-standard in our current society.  Look at the hiring policies in the NFL.  Each team owner is required to interview a black candidate if a head coaching job becomes available.  Do they require that white men be invited to the NFL training camps when a spot at RunningBack opens up?  Naw.


Further, how will I benefit from my "white maleness" if I can't even get in to my target schools?  I'm not concerned about my dream schools or my reach schools.  Those are not why I am upset.  I'm upset that a person with a 3.4+ GPA and a 169 LSAT gets waitlisted at 9 of the top 30 schools and this guy (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=grard1234) gets those results with 3.36 and a 160.  His numbers should have him as an auto-reject at UPenn.  I have a lot of respect for a different person on LSN who ran a test of sorts with the admissions committees at Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Columbia.  Read his project at: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=BlackCobra122.  He has a 167 and a 3.53 and gets accepted to Harvard when he lists himself as a black male, yet rejected at Michigan when he purposely refrains from telling the adcomms he is black.  Explain that.  How is that fair to him?  He can't even take advantage of his acceptance to Harvard without thinking that it's because he was black.  He went on to be accepted by Georgetown without disclosing his racial information, while turning down his acceptance to Harvard.  I admire him for not getting ahead on what he presumed was based solely on race. 


IMO, affirmative action should be changed to include those who are at a socio-economic disadvantage.  If student's parents are millionaires, should they get into a law school over someone who is living at the poverty level and still manages to post better grades/LSAT scores?  Answer this question in the following cases: white millionaire/white poverty student, white/black, black/white, and black/black.  Sadly, most people automatically assume that if you are a URM, you are also at an economical disadvantage and vice versa for whites.  Based on historical precedent, that would be correct.  However, it is my belief that we are passed those days and that it is not exclusively an issue of black-white anymore, but rich-poor.  Noone can argue that there is an increasing disparity in wealth levels in America.  Likewise, noone can argue that race relations are not getting better.  The status of race relations is of course up for debate and can be framed in several ways depending on one's agenda.   

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H4CS

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 11:47:01 PM »
Steve Yzerman came out and said "Black people should only play black sports"

What if he walked uphill both ways in college and during his master's prograam to say it?

Will Hunting

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 12:55:59 AM »
Alright, what if the Dean of Harvard came out and said "White people should go to white people schools and black people should go to black people schools..."  For the sake of the argument, let's say that the dean makes this statement at the top of Mt. Everest having scaled it in one day's time, only to return to the basin via crab crawl. 

Kanye makes a statement like this and I bet hardly anyone hears of it.  I'm not gonna sit here and say rap is ruining society like others, mostly because I listen solely to rap music, and I'm not going to say that their use of black language makes it okay for white people to use the same verbage because it doesn't.  What I will say is that I don't care what color your skin is, racist remarks should be treated all the same.  Be it harsh or lenient, there should be a standard that transends skin color and ethnic background and applies to all people young and old.  Since you bring up Don Imus, I'll play along and say that if he is taken off the airwaves for being racist, Kanye should be as well.  I don't ask for special treatment for whites or blacks or economically disadvantage, all I ask for is a level playing field where everyone is treated equally and everyone is accountable for their own personal actions.         
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H4CS

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 01:01:59 AM »
Good luck trying to blame black people when you make rambling and incoherent arguments in class.

Will Hunting

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 01:09:49 AM »
If a equal system like the one I mentioned above is unattainable, then treat it like the tax bracket system in America.  White people don't pay more or less than non-whites based on the history of their race.  They pay based on the current financial state.  If a white person makes less money than a black person, let them pay less taxes.  If a black person makes less than a white person, let them pay less.  Along the same lines, if you are looking to bring people who are at the bottom rung and mistreated in our society, grab those at the bottom and bring them up.  It is ignorant to assume that because someone is of a certain skin type, they have necessarily overcome more adversity than someone who is of another skin type.  I'm sure that many of you know people of other colors who are more fortunate and who are less fortunate than you.  Do they deserve to be placed before you or after you because they check off that they were born of a different race or do they deserve to be placed based on who they are and what they have made with themselves?

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."  Do you think the man who made this comment would be happy to hear that his dream has come true in such a way that a person like "BlackCobra" on LSN cannot accept his admission to Harvard because he feels it may be based on affirmative action?  I don't think so.  A person of his character, a person who would turn down acceptance to basically the Holy Grail of law schools (Yale aside) because he is not certain he earned it based on merit, deserves to be judged based on his character...and character he certainly does not lack.  
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Will Hunting

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 01:12:20 AM »
Good luck trying to blame black people when you make rambling and incoherent arguments in class.

Well, if I follow Kanye's logic, I should go to a law school that is all white and will have no one to blame but other white people.  Incoherent logic?  Is asking for a level playing field and to be judged on the content of one's character instead of the color of their skin illogical?  Do you not see that this is the exact opposite of what the man who spoke those words intended? 
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Will Hunting

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 01:25:52 AM »
In agreeing with affirmative action based on race, you're saying that you wish to be judged on the color of your skin AND the content of your character as opposed to just the latter.  If you've had four years of undergraduate course study in addition to the opportunity for full-time work experience before law school, let your remarkable achievements speak for themselves.   
Attending (Tony): UT!!!
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Out (Christopher): H,Y,S, Chi, NW, GULC, Boalt,
WL (Anthony Junior): UMich, UVa, Duke, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Vandy, ND, BC

H4CS

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Re: Blacks and LSAT scores
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 01:29:37 AM »
No offense buddy, but you've done enough speaking for now.  How about letting silence speak for you.  You're giving me agita.