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Author Topic: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools  (Read 16754 times)

skillerj

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Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:16:04 PM »
This boggled my mind for a while...

UT law school, one of the toughest to get in to in Canada, says they have an average LSAT score of 166 for the admitted students, which is like similarly equivalent to US schools ranking in mid 20's.

Why do you think this is?  ???
1. Knowing that Canadian law schools don't put too  much weight on the LSAT as much as GPAs, do applicants just don't bother as much in getting a +170 score,
or,
2. the applicants in Canada just can't keep up with the high scores that the US counterparts achieve?

Any ideas?

Doraemon

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 04:57:59 PM »
This boggled my mind for a while...

UT law school, one of the toughest to get in to in Canada, says they have an average LSAT score of 166 for the admitted students, which is like similarly equivalent to US schools ranking in mid 20's.

Why do you think this is?  ???
1. Knowing that Canadian law schools don't put too  much weight on the LSAT as much as GPAs, do applicants just don't bother as much in getting a +170 score,
or,
2. the applicants in Canada just can't keep up with the high scores that the US counterparts achieve?

Any ideas?

Or 3, U of T Law is "equivalent to US schools ranking in mid 20's"

It is probably a little better than that but not that much better.

ouchitburns

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 06:20:30 PM »
I think that the LSAT is just not as important to Canadian schools because they don't care about being ranked like the US schools do. They are able to be a tad more holistic. Also, one must realise that the applicant pool in Canada is much smaller than in the US. U of T may not even get enough applicants with a high LSAT to be able to bring up the entrance stats. So, for all those reasons, U of T is probably not in the mid twenties - I would say around 7-14 and it is only there because it has less money than the big schools in the US - although that may not actually be saying anything.

I think another big thing is that the legal market in Canada is minor compared to the US, so even if UofT was "ranked" higher, it would still feel the exodus of high stats students to the US who just want the opportunity at an extremely high paying job immediately after graduation.

Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 11:07:24 PM »
U of T also has a median GPA of around 3.8, which is quite impressive considering grade deflation at Canadian universities.  U of T is probably comparable to UCLA, Cornell, or Vandy in selectivity, not schools in the 20s.  The schools in the 20s have medians around 3.6/165-166, but they admit splitters to raise the LSAT score.  At U of T, you aren't getting in with a 2.9/172 the way you will at W&L, WUSTL, or UIUC; there is simply more emphasis on GPA.  I think Berkeley's medians were 3.8/165 2 years ago, Duke's are pretty close to that too.

rizz

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 02:27:12 PM »
If you think about the pool of lawschool candidates in the U.S. compared to Canada the difference is absolutely huge. There is about 15 law schools in canada. I have no idea how many are in the U.S. but it has got to be over 200. Smaller pool means less numbers at the top. Combine this with the fact that for most Canadians the LSAT is the only standardized test they will ever take. Compare this with Americans who go through standardized testing throughout their education and have been through the SAT/ACT ritual already.

rizz

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 02:30:43 PM »
U of T also has a median GPA of around 3.8, which is quite impressive considering grade deflation at Canadian universities.  U of T is probably comparable to UCLA, Cornell, or Vandy in selectivity, not schools in the 20s.  The schools in the 20s have medians around 3.6/165-166, but they admit splitters to raise the LSAT score.  At U of T, you aren't getting in with a 2.9/172 the way you will at W&L, WUSTL, or UIUC; there is simply more emphasis on GPA.  I think Berkeley's medians were 3.8/165 2 years ago, Duke's are pretty close to that too.

Keep in mind U of T selects the best three years of school when they make admission decisions. The GPA number is a bit misleading.

Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 02:44:59 PM »
U of T also has a median GPA of around 3.8, which is quite impressive considering grade deflation at Canadian universities.  U of T is probably comparable to UCLA, Cornell, or Vandy in selectivity, not schools in the 20s.  The schools in the 20s have medians around 3.6/165-166, but they admit splitters to raise the LSAT score.  At U of T, you aren't getting in with a 2.9/172 the way you will at W&L, WUSTL, or UIUC; there is simply more emphasis on GPA.  I think Berkeley's medians were 3.8/165 2 years ago, Duke's are pretty close to that too.

Keep in mind U of T selects the best three years of school when they make admission decisions. The GPA number is a bit misleading.

True, but I imagine the effect is not all that significant.  It should also be noted that Ontario schools use a 4.0 scale for admission that rewards A+ with 4.0 instead of 4.33, and A with 3.9 instead of the 4.0 give by the LSAC scale.  My point is that there is no US school outside the top 18 schools as difficult to get into as U of T, and few are even close. 

skillerj

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 04:52:34 PM »
Let's say I have a 3.5 UGPA(calculated by LSADS), and a 170 LSAT. Would I have a higher chance to get into U of T, or say for the argument's sake, Georgetown(T14)?  My GPAs are too low for UofT, but within the 25%-75% range for Georgetown. Which school would be better to pursue for your success in career?
I may be comparing apples and oranges, because there are so many factors involved such as the tuition, quality of living, job prospects/competition/salaries etc.

- stirring things up.

radar1

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 10:51:48 PM »
In regards to the lower LSAT score averages, you have to understand that on the whole, the Canadian education system does not use standardized tests for admissions purposes. On almost all levels, admission is based on your academic performance at the previous level.

We do not have SATs or any tests for admission to undergrad.  (though a few provinces have recently brought in some tests required for High School graduation (ex. Ontario's grade 10 literacy test)). Your admission to an undergrad program is based on your HS grades, and possibly soft factors depending on the school/program. Also, most Masters programs in Canada do not require GMATs or GRE's or whatever they're called. 

Canadians are at a bit of a disadvantage on these tests, because for most of them writing the LSAT, it's the first and only standardized test they've ever written.  We're not used to the prep, format, and grading that is used on it.. Of course, this doesn't explain everything, but I'd imagine it translates into about a 5 point drop in average scores.  Law School's know this, and take it into account.

Also, don't be surprised to see the LSAT requirement for Canadian schools disappear in the coming years.  There is a review happening right now over the finger printing involved -- because under the Patriot Act, the US Gov't can demand a copy of your fingerprints & personal info from LSAC - and LSAC can/will not tell you about it.  Thus, Canadian law schools are essentially requiring you to submit your fingerprints and personal info to a foreign government as a requirement of admission - which is a violation of personal freedoms and civil/privacy rights.  I'm not completely sure of where this whole issue stands right now, but I do know that Canadian schools are looking into alternatives to the test.

keelee

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Re: Lower LSAT scores in Canadian Law schools
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2007, 01:39:12 AM »
Or how about that most Canadians who are scoring 170+ are probably applying (and attending) schools in the US.
Going to as of now...USC or Fordham.