# Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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### AuthorTopic: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?  (Read 650 times)

#### Texas2L

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• Posts: 322
• Texas
##### Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« on: April 10, 2007, 01:05:06 AM »
Okay so since search is completely hosed and the google search returns garbage, I'm going to go ahead and post this even though I know it's probably been answered 247 times.

I calculated the index range for 25%, median, and 75% based on the numbers in the ABA data sheet for the school I'm applying to.  These numbers are 2.6, 2.9, and 3.1.  I'm ignoring the actual LSAT/GPA values for now because my GPA is absurdly low and my LSAT is well above their 75%.

If the 25% index is 2.6, and my index is 2.8, thats.. good, right?

The conventional wisdom I've read is that 25% means auto-reject; however that can't be right, SOMEONE is at the 25%, right?  The only wildcard would be URM's, which can skew the #'s to mean that a white male like myself would need more than the 'official' numbers would suggest.

Whats the true wisdom on this?  I know, PS, LOR's, Why X essay, work experience, blah blah - just trying to figure out whats up because the official data *TOTALLY* does not jive with what I see on LSN.  Which either makes me happy or scared.  I can't figure out which.  And I think the waiting is making me psychotic.

#### Captain

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 3366
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 08:27:48 AM »
Okay so since search is completely hosed and the google search returns garbage, I'm going to go ahead and post this even though I know it's probably been answered 247 times.

I calculated the index range for 25%, median, and 75% based on the numbers in the ABA data sheet for the school I'm applying to.  These numbers are 2.6, 2.9, and 3.1.  I'm ignoring the actual LSAT/GPA values for now because my GPA is absurdly low and my LSAT is well above their 75%.

If the 25% index is 2.6, and my index is 2.8, thats.. good, right?

The conventional wisdom I've read is that 25% means auto-reject; however that can't be right, SOMEONE is at the 25%, right?  The only wildcard would be URM's, which can skew the #'s to mean that a white male like myself would need more than the 'official' numbers would suggest.

Whats the true wisdom on this?  I know, PS, LOR's, Why X essay, work experience, blah blah - just trying to figure out whats up because the official data *TOTALLY* does not jive with what I see on LSN.  Which either makes me happy or scared.  I can't figure out which.  And I think the waiting is making me psychotic.

Auto-reject differs from school to school... I'm well below the 25% at Penn and I wasn't auto-dinged (although I will be regular-dinged, I'm sure). Who knows. I guess the best wisdom is this: Median and above means you are likely safe and accepted. Below the median, the odds decrease as the numbers do...
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#### Johnny Stuffs His Mouth

• LSD Obsessed
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• 1/2 of the Golden Couple
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 10:47:53 AM »
Okay so since search is completely hosed and the google search returns garbage, I'm going to go ahead and post this even though I know it's probably been answered 247 times.

I calculated the index range for 25%, median, and 75% based on the numbers in the ABA data sheet for the school I'm applying to.  These numbers are 2.6, 2.9, and 3.1.  I'm ignoring the actual LSAT/GPA values for now because my GPA is absurdly low and my LSAT is well above their 75%.

If the 25% index is 2.6, and my index is 2.8, thats.. good, right?

The conventional wisdom I've read is that 25% means auto-reject; however that can't be right, SOMEONE is at the 25%, right?  The only wildcard would be URM's, which can skew the #'s to mean that a white male like myself would need more than the 'official' numbers would suggest.

Whats the true wisdom on this?  I know, PS, LOR's, Why X essay, work experience, blah blah - just trying to figure out whats up because the official data *TOTALLY* does not jive with what I see on LSN.  Which either makes me happy or scared.  I can't figure out which.  And I think the waiting is making me psychotic.

Remember also that having a 25% GPA doesn't mean also having a 25% LSAT. Sure, there will be some people below both, but I'd bet the majority of 25% GPAers have high LSATs, and vice versa.

Fake example:

Student A: 3.2 GPA, 170 LSAT
Student B: 3.6 GPA, 166 LSAT
Student C: 4.0 GPA, 162 LSAT

All 3 students could have the same index number; calculating the 25% index doesn't make any sense in this case. Not that this is always true, just saying you might want to factor that in.
I'll join the cool crowd: 3.23/173
Blinded by the light (Attending): UVA!!! Wahoo 2010!!!
Wrapped up like a feminine hygiene product (Accepted): UVA!! Fordham, Georgetown!!! NYU!!!!!!!!!
Another odor in the night (Rejected): Harvard
Let's go LSAT score! http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=johnkorean

#### Texas2L

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 322
• Texas
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 11:11:45 AM »

Remember also that having a 25% GPA doesn't mean also having a 25% LSAT. Sure, there will be some people below both, but I'd bet the majority of 25% GPAers have high LSATs, and vice versa.

Fake example:

Student A: 3.2 GPA, 170 LSAT
Student B: 3.6 GPA, 166 LSAT
Student C: 4.0 GPA, 162 LSAT

All 3 students could have the same index number; calculating the 25% index doesn't make any sense in this case. Not that this is always true, just saying you might want to factor that in.

So what you're saying is, the 25% GPA and 25% LSAT don't coincide, so taking those together and making the "25% index" is meaningless because that person wouldn't get admitted.

That makes alot more sense within what I see on LSN.  Now if we could just get them to release the index #'s on the ABA data

#### Johnny Stuffs His Mouth

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 6223
• 1/2 of the Golden Couple
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 11:16:02 AM »

Remember also that having a 25% GPA doesn't mean also having a 25% LSAT. Sure, there will be some people below both, but I'd bet the majority of 25% GPAers have high LSATs, and vice versa.

Fake example:

Student A: 3.2 GPA, 170 LSAT
Student B: 3.6 GPA, 166 LSAT
Student C: 4.0 GPA, 162 LSAT

All 3 students could have the same index number; calculating the 25% index doesn't make any sense in this case. Not that this is always true, just saying you might want to factor that in.

So what you're saying is, the 25% GPA and 25% LSAT don't coincide, so taking those together and making the "25% index" is meaningless because that person wouldn't get admitted.

That makes alot more sense within what I see on LSN.  Now if we could just get them to release the index #'s on the ABA data

Eh, not necessarily meaningless, as I'm sure not everyone at that level would be rejected. The problem is that when trying to create a 25% index, you're viewing the LSAT and GPA as separate lists, whereas I don't think that's the case at all. You cacn't calculate the hypothetical 25% index number using LSAT and GPA seperately; you need to first calculate the index numbers for the individuals.
I'll join the cool crowd: 3.23/173
Blinded by the light (Attending): UVA!!! Wahoo 2010!!!
Wrapped up like a feminine hygiene product (Accepted): UVA!! Fordham, Georgetown!!! NYU!!!!!!!!!
Another odor in the night (Rejected): Harvard
Let's go LSAT score! http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=johnkorean

#### Refused Party Program

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 494
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 01:40:14 PM »

Fake example:

Student A: 3.2 GPA, 170 LSAT
Student B: 3.6 GPA, 166 LSAT
Student C: 4.0 GPA, 162 LSAT

All 3 students could have the same index number; calculating the 25% index doesn't make any sense in this case. Not that this is always true, just saying you might want to factor that in.

Also, you should keep in mind that Student A is a much better position than Student C, although their index numbers could be the same. A hight GPA is nice, but a higher LSAT is nicer because it's standard across all applicants.

#### rtqw

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• Posts: 1372
• Jim Tressel drinks wine coolers
##### Re: Index Numbers and 25-75 split - someone has to be at the 25% mark, right?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 01:54:16 PM »
I'm not sure how helpful looking at index numbers is, given your low GPA. Whether you get in or not is likely to be largely a function of whether they look at your work experience and decide to discount your low GPA a good deal or whether they look at your GPA as big red flag that the rest of your application will not be able to overcome.
University of Michigan Law School, Class of 2010
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