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Author Topic: IMUS vs. Sharpton  (Read 11496 times)

Oddibemcd

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2007, 10:11:15 PM »
I don't fight against because I like rap.

And that is the same justifcation, white people use when the justify the idocies of Howard Stern.

Rappers give fictionalized accounts of anonymous people.

Those fictionalized accounts are not of anonymous people. If specification is the issue, then by NOT specifying, wouldn't you, by default, include the general population of women? If Strom Thurmond says, "I hate n*ggers," should I not be offended because he didn't say my name specifically?

We live in white dominated society. And equally, we live in a male dominated society. We, as blacks, justifiably, find grievance when a member of the white consortium makes a remark that is racially offensive. So how in the same breath, as black men, can we expect women to sanction misogynism from the male-dominated rap game?

White men demean all types of women for the almighty dollar.  Any look at a billboard or magazine attests to this.  White women are demeaned daily.

AS IF that gives us a free pass to do the same thing.

My argument isn't based on intellectual rigidness. It is directed at intellectual hypocrisy. And I should clarify, not all rap music is misogynistic. Some rap music is thoughtful and artistic, but radio doesn't play that.

The variables may differ, but what Imus did to those women equates to what mainstream rap music consistently does to all women.

I like this post, very well reasoned.
I also like Mos Def and Talib Kwali, two hip-hop artists that don't rely upon mysogynestic and offensive lyrics.
For me, the big disparity between the two groups are their relative positions. While Imus is a shock jock, he also holds some for of legitimacy within powerful institutions. If Oprah called the Penn basketball team a bunch of pasty-ass crackers, the outrage would be even greater. However, most rap artists exist at the mercy of the record label. While a few have managed to broaden their scope, their sphere of influence remains well-defined (namely African-American youth who generally do not vote and do not possess large disposable incomes.)
Thus, the actions of those who hold greater influence over the American populace should face more scrutiny, because more damage can occur because of racist and sexist statements.
The one question that I have is that if 6 of the 14 players on the Rutgers are caucasian (or at least appear to be to my untrained eye,) was Imus insulting them as well?
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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2007, 10:38:11 PM »
I've read through the whole thread - and wow, it's hard to sift through everything and come down on one side or another.

While I'd co-sign with just about everything The Bad Guy posted, I have to give credence to Sharpton and Jackson's (and posters that agree with him) stance that what someone says reflects their beliefs and attitudes, and that should be taken at face value and dealt with.

The manner in which Imus is dealt with seems to be the most hotly debated, though, and I cannot honestly say that firing him would be an optimal solution.

First of all, Imus has been brought to task about the issue, has apologized and vows to make amends. I would rather have him watched and see that he makes changes than have him cast off, where he can perpetuate what seems to be an ignorant mindset in a smaller, perhaps more receptive setting (because I doubt he'd just disappear into oblivion).

Secondly, and this is simply my opinion, but it seems hypocritical to claim that Sharpton and Jackson have been marginalized and ill-treated for once-in-a-lifetime-ago comments and then turn around and do the same thing to this man. Granted, in Imus' case this is not an isolated incident. On the Students and Graduates section of this site, posters have quoted and linked previous interviews and quips Imus has stated that were (IMO) far more offensive than his ignorant remarks about the Rutgers' women's team, but if we are isolating this incident (as Sharpton and other outraged citizens are) as the reason for Imus' resignation, it begs the question: When and WHY is an apology not enough?

Ultimately I think Imus' hurtful comments (past and present) should be weighed against his displayed remorse, but what would hurt him most is to lose listeners. Financial protest is far more effective than pickets and radio attacks.

To read the entire transcript of Imus' appearance on Sharpton's show:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/business/media/09imus_transcript.html?pagewanted=1

Even more interesting - other comments regarding Imus:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3226997/
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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2007, 10:42:36 PM »
I only saw two white women on the team, but that was at the press conference.

"However, most rap artists exist at the mercy of the record label."

agreed.  this is why it is very disingenuous for people to wonder why some blacks arent up in arms against rappers, but seem to be pissed at Imus.  Like I said before, Imus keeps company with presidents; rappers words are discounted as soon as they come out their mouth because of their position in society.  yes, i said all of this already but just to reitterate.  


"So how in the same breath, as black men, can we expect women to sanction misogynism from the male-dominated rap game?"

I dont have that expectation, but women do sanction hip hop.  They do it when they perform in the videos, when they imitate the dances in the clubs, when they buy albums, on and on.  Even so I do not see this as a problem within the hip hop community as much as I see it as a problem within America.  

"AS IF that gives us a free pass to do the same thing"

No free pass brother, but I'm wondering why the eye is being trained on hip hop the way it is?????  You want to talk about objectifying women, do a search on the net for all the weird ways women are objectified, animilized on and on in ways much much worse than any rap video.  people like to sweep that *&^% under the rug but it exists and it speaks to AMERICAS psyche about women.  Lets just not pick on rappers here, especially when we are talking about a person who interviews presidents, and his penchance for making racist remarks.  seriously, if Imus is so much like rappers ask him if he would trade his standing in the community with a rappers.  a rapper says what he says, but is relagated to the stigma that comes along with everything he says.  imus got his cake and want to eat it too.

"Those fictionalized accounts are not of anonymous people? "

really?  Brendas got a baby, but do you know her last name?  seriously.  when jay says she liked my chain and started relaxin I dont know wtf hes talking about, do you? seems pretty anonymous to me.


@PUSH

I think he should be fired because that is how I would be dealt with at my workplace if made those sort of comments.  however, looking at the situation in its entirety...probably more harm than good would come from firing him.  if he puts a black guy on his show, or makes legitimate efforts to change he could be a postive example in the long run.  I also think people are sick of hearing apologies about this sort of thing.  Its like commonplace now.  People are just tired of it, and rightly or wrongly Imus probably is catching alot of that backlash.



  
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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2007, 11:51:02 PM »
So do you understand the difference between someone making a general statement that can be construed any number of ways, and someone making a specific statement about a specific person/people that can only be taken one way (as an insult)?

"People" are classified by their shared differences. African-American people have physical and cultural traits that distinguish us from other races. On that same note, women are also a distinct people. Distinguishable from men, they bear children. That's not a rigid analysis, that's common sense.
To recklessly refer to women and b*tches and hoes is a general statement about a specific group of people, and it conjurs a history of oppression and objectification by men. So again I ask, if Strom Thurmond says, "I hate n*ggers," should I not be offended because he didn't say my name specifically?"
It is appropriate to compare a rapper's sexism with the Imus' remarks because of the black community's selective uproar. We silently sanction one and loudly critisize the other. That was the point I originally made. Like I said, no one has demanded an apology from Bob Johnson for the years of personified slavery broadcasted on his network or called for the ouster of Sony or Time Warner CEOs for their promotion of this type of degradation.
I never vilified all rap music . I singled out mainstream rap music because it is controlled by corporate interests. I love rap music, but I won't defend it when it is mysogonistic.

It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2007, 12:16:37 AM »
I dont have that expectation, but women do sanction hip hop.  They do it when they perform in the videos, when they imitate the dances in the clubs, when they buy albums, on and on.  Even so I do not see this as a problem within the hip hop community as much as I see it as a problem within America.

-That justification is bs. Attention everyone: Video vixens now the spokespersons for all women.

"No free pass brother, but I'm wondering why the eye is being trained on hip hop the way it is?"

-The eye is on mainstream rap music. Not the Commons, Mos Defs, and the Tribe Called Quests. The eye is on the Nelly's and 50 Cent's who are socially irresponsible with their lyrics. The real "house negros" who play to the tune of Big Dollar Bill and the industry execs.

-Imus is comparable to rappers only in the context of the response from the black community.

-Brenda's Got a Baby!? Mysogonistic? You are really going to compare Tupac's account of teen pregancy in the black community to the likes of Nelly and his Tip Drill? And you love Hip-Hop.....get out of here.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

1654134681665465

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2007, 12:44:42 AM »
Quote
For the life of me I donít get why Imus is so popular other than to make white people feel good because he saying publically things they only say in private.

Wow... from someone who claims to know all about being PC, this is a racist generalization.  How do you know what white people talk about in private?  It sounds like you should educate yourself before you run around calling others ignorant.  I don't know how anyone can take you seriously, when you make such stupid comments.  I guess you really do understand Imus better than anyone else, since you are obviously as stupid as he is.  Thank you for making all of us dumber with your profoundly retarded comments. 

1654134681665465

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2007, 12:54:54 AM »
Quote
If Oprah called the Penn basketball team a bunch of pasty-ass crackers, the outrage would be even greater.

I highly doubt it-I bet that nobody would even care, not even the players (except for the players mothers).  When prominent black democrats called Maryland Senatorial Candidate Michael Steel a n*gger, it barely made the news. 

Quote
While a few have managed to broaden their scope, their sphere of influence remains well defined (namely African-American youth who generally do not vote and do not possess large disposable incomes.)

Great, so they aren't even using their "small" sphere of influence for good.  The poor, and especially impressionable youth, are the ones who need the most help.  Instead they are being taught through music to be violent, abusive, leaches on society.  Great point.  Keep them coming, because they are really helping your argument.

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2007, 01:13:19 AM »
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However, most rap artists exist at the mercy of the record label.

At their mercy???  I bet 50 cent was FORCED to write such a culturally enlightened song as "Smells like p*ssy".  These rappers want money and fame.  They have no problem doing it while covering themselves in cash and slapping the @sses of video vixens (aka the spokespersons for all women). 

Again-Imus is a SHOCK JOCK.  What don't you get about this, Madness?  It is quite simple, really. 

He said something stupid, but protected under free speech.  If sponsors want to pull their money and listeners want to tune in else where, then his ratings will drop.  Low ratings will get his show minimalized and possibly dropped.  Having the Most Mighty Rev. Sharpton define what an appropriate apology is, is stupid. 

Carlos Mencia and Dave Chappel are hilarious.  Nobody is offended by them, because everyone knows that they are entertainers.  They can say what they want, just like Imus can make his dumb comments.  His punishment will be decided by the market, not by almighty community leaders.  Welcome to America.

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2007, 10:09:51 AM »
I really never attempted to answer the question of what Sharpton has done for the black community. Are you really being serious with this question?


Yes, I am quite serious. Enlighten me to the good works of Big Perm.

Nah, enlighten yourself.  Try www.google.com. Start with works with Martin Luther King and work up to Louima.

Good luck
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_BP_

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Re: IMUS vs. Sharpton
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2007, 11:29:06 AM »
I really never attempted to answer the question of what Sharpton has done for the black community. Are you really being serious with this question?


Yes, I am quite serious. Enlighten me to the good works of Big Perm.

Nah, enlighten yourself.  Try www.google.com. Start with works with Martin Luther King and work up to Louima.

Good luck

Then, for balance, you might as well Google:

Tawana Brawley, Yankel Rosenbaum and Freddy's Fashion Mart.


Then, to round it out, combine Hollowman's post above with this post I made a few pages back then take a few moments to reflect, it should start to come together:

-Oh and to answer the ďall the good things Imus has done for the communityĒ dilemma.  Did all the good things Sharpton do for the community work in his defence with the Tawana Brawley situation? Or does working for justice in the black community not count as a good thing among whites?-
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