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Author Topic: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami  (Read 4416 times)

law-school graduate

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2007, 08:19:14 AM »
To work at a local big-size firm in Miami upon graduation from UM, you still need to finish in the top 10 percent of your class--or better--to do so. 

I am a 2L at UM and there are many things about the school that are excellent.  I think that I have gotten a good education here.  But, I state the following to a lot of people considering the school.  Just because UM is the highest-ranked school is South Florida does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that doing well in the class--top third, for example--will get you into local big law.  The reason for this, I believe, is twofold.  First, local summer associate programs generally consist of one to eight students; in a program of eight, UM might place two students, the others coming from other local and national schools.  Miami is not New York, where firms often place thirty to eighty summer associates.  So, the available spots are less.  I sometimes think that statistics showing that Miami is a large legal market are misleading in that regard.  Second, the OCI process, by which local big-size firms hire, gives a tremendous advantage to students at the very top of the class.  Firms pick largely--almost exclusively--on grades for their initial interviews; the same group of students often interview for the same jobs.

So I can answer your quesiton rather confidently, at least in regard to UM.  If you finish in the top ten percent of the class, then you have a darn good chance of working in a local big-size firm.  In fact, you will also have a chance to work in a national firm; I know quite a few at the top of the class that have secured biglaw summer associate positions in NY, DC, and other east coast cities this summer.  But, the cut-off is fairly immediate.  Save one or two out of the top ten percent, I don't know of others who have secured local biglaw jobs for the summer. 

I hope this better answers your question re UM.  I apologize for knowing little about University of Arizona, but I suspect it is similar.  I generally tend to agree that where you move beyond the top thirty or so schools, competition for biglaw is stiff, regardless of the school or location.  Part of the reason why lower-ranked schools curve the way they do is because employeers want to have a guage by which to measure students they seek to hire.  It's nothing to complain of, but another aspect of the sometimes not-always-so-pleasant reality of law school. 

vap

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2007, 09:55:04 AM »
I do not believe we've considered cost yet.  While someone already mentioned the difference in cost of living and the "value" of those median salaries, consider cost while you are attending.  I am assuming, of course, that you have no scholarship at Miami...

So:
Miami @ $34.5K tuition and $17K living x3 = $154.5K
Arizona @ $28.5K tuition and $14.5K living x3 = $129K

So Miami costs about $25K more upfront.

However, Arizona lets you establish residency as long as you establish domicile a year in advance. So when you move in July, quickly change your license, register your car, register to vote, etc. (and be sure to work your 1L summer in Arizona).  This drops your tuition about 11K per year for 2L and 3L.  I was told by the admissions office that even students who end up not qualifying for 2L often can reapply for residency and obtain it 3L.

So Arizona has the potential of costing as much as $47K less than Miami.

I've researched both schools, and I'll reiterate what others have said that neither school offers a significant advantage for Biglaw, although (at least on paper) Miami seems to be a better legal market than Phoenix.  A moderate amount of Biglaw graduates of Arizona go to LA.

The clerkship #s should not be discounted, especially considering Arizona places about 7% of its total graduating class in FEDERAL clerkships (1/3 of all its clerks).  This is an astounding number for any school outside the Top 20/etc.  If you do a federal clerkship, you become a hot commodity for any employer.

umass22

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2007, 07:11:08 PM »
To work at a local big-size firm in Miami upon graduation from UM, you still need to finish in the top 10 percent of your class--or better--to do so. 

I am a 2L at UM and there are many things about the school that are excellent.  I think that I have gotten a good education here.  But, I state the following to a lot of people considering the school.  Just because UM is the highest-ranked school is South Florida does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that doing well in the class--top third, for example--will get you into local big law.  The reason for this, I believe, is twofold.  First, local summer associate programs generally consist of one to eight students; in a program of eight, UM might place two students, the others coming from other local and national schools.  Miami is not New York, where firms often place thirty to eighty summer associates.  So, the available spots are less.  I sometimes think that statistics showing that Miami is a large legal market are misleading in that regard.  Second, the OCI process, by which local big-size firms hire, gives a tremendous advantage to students at the very top of the class.  Firms pick largely--almost exclusively--on grades for their initial interviews; the same group of students often interview for the same jobs.

So I can answer your quesiton rather confidently, at least in regard to UM.  If you finish in the top ten percent of the class, then you have a darn good chance of working in a local big-size firm.  In fact, you will also have a chance to work in a national firm; I know quite a few at the top of the class that have secured biglaw summer associate positions in NY, DC, and other east coast cities this summer.  But, the cut-off is fairly immediate.  Save one or two out of the top ten percent, I don't know of others who have secured local biglaw jobs for the summer. 

I hope this better answers your question re UM.  I apologize for knowing little about University of Arizona, but I suspect it is similar.  I generally tend to agree that where you move beyond the top thirty or so schools, competition for biglaw is stiff, regardless of the school or location.  Part of the reason why lower-ranked schools curve the way they do is because employeers want to have a guage by which to measure students they seek to hire.  It's nothing to complain of, but another aspect of the sometimes not-always-so-pleasant reality of law school. 

thanks for your response! What kind of options are there if you can't get a biglaw job? Is it either biglaw or making 50k a year at some small firm in Miami? Or is there more of a middle area?

kulrythm

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2007, 09:51:04 PM »
Keep in mind that Phoenix is a huge city, and there are only about 300 graduates each year from UofA and ASU combined.  In contrast, Miami has over 400 students per class.  Plus Miami students must compete with the graduates from the higher ranked University of Florida and Florida State which have 400 and 250 students per class respectively.  Then there is the additional competition from graduates of east coast schools at Miami.

The question is whether the ratio of (new grads)/(available large firm jobs) is better in Miami or Phoenix.  Is there some sort of empiricle measurement of the number of jobs each year available to BigLaw-seeking graduates in Miami and Phoenix? 

keelee

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2007, 10:13:07 PM »
Keep in mind that Phoenix is a huge city, and there are only about 300 graduates each year from UofA and ASU combined.  In contrast, Miami has over 400 students per class.  Plus Miami students must compete with the graduates from the higher ranked University of Florida and Florida State which have 400 and 250 students per class respectively.  Then there is the additional competition from graduates of east coast schools at Miami.

The question is whether the ratio of (new grads)/(available large firm jobs) is better in Miami or Phoenix.  Is there some sort of empiricle measurement of the number of jobs each year available to BigLaw-seeking graduates in Miami and Phoenix? 

FSU places poorly in Miami to the point where they have a seminar "How to get a Job in Miami" for their students. UF, while higher ranked, does not place as well as UM in the region, but still does well. UM is top dog in Miami. Not UF. Not FSU. The realy compietition for UM students is actually worse than UF or FSU: it is T14 students.
Going to as of now...USC or Fordham.

UnbiasedObserver

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2007, 02:28:12 PM »
To work at a local big-size firm in Miami upon graduation from UM, you still need to finish in the top 10 percent of your class--or better--to do so. 

I am a 2L at UM and there are many things about the school that are excellent.  I think that I have gotten a good education here.  But, I state the following to a lot of people considering the school.  Just because UM is the highest-ranked school is South Florida does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that doing well in the class--top third, for example--will get you into local big law.  The reason for this, I believe, is twofold.  First, local summer associate programs generally consist of one to eight students; in a program of eight, UM might place two students, the others coming from other local and national schools.  Miami is not New York, where firms often place thirty to eighty summer associates.  So, the available spots are less.  I sometimes think that statistics showing that Miami is a large legal market are misleading in that regard.  Second, the OCI process, by which local big-size firms hire, gives a tremendous advantage to students at the very top of the class.  Firms pick largely--almost exclusively--on grades for their initial interviews; the same group of students often interview for the same jobs.

So I can answer your quesiton rather confidently, at least in regard to UM.  If you finish in the top ten percent of the class, then you have a darn good chance of working in a local big-size firm.  In fact, you will also have a chance to work in a national firm; I know quite a few at the top of the class that have secured biglaw summer associate positions in NY, DC, and other east coast cities this summer.  But, the cut-off is fairly immediate.  Save one or two out of the top ten percent, I don't know of others who have secured local biglaw jobs for the summer. 

I hope this better answers your question re UM.  I apologize for knowing little about University of Arizona, but I suspect it is similar.  I generally tend to agree that where you move beyond the top thirty or so schools, competition for biglaw is stiff, regardless of the school or location.  Part of the reason why lower-ranked schools curve the way they do is because employeers want to have a guage by which to measure students they seek to hire.  It's nothing to complain of, but another aspect of the sometimes not-always-so-pleasant reality of law school. 

So, where do the rest of the graduates end up at UM, i.e., those not in the top 10 percent?  Midlaw firms?  Small firms?  (And what do you define as such?)

umass22

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2007, 04:25:36 PM »
To work at a local big-size firm in Miami upon graduation from UM, you still need to finish in the top 10 percent of your class--or better--to do so. 

I am a 2L at UM and there are many things about the school that are excellent.  I think that I have gotten a good education here.  But, I state the following to a lot of people considering the school.  Just because UM is the highest-ranked school is South Florida does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that doing well in the class--top third, for example--will get you into local big law.  The reason for this, I believe, is twofold.  First, local summer associate programs generally consist of one to eight students; in a program of eight, UM might place two students, the others coming from other local and national schools.  Miami is not New York, where firms often place thirty to eighty summer associates.  So, the available spots are less.  I sometimes think that statistics showing that Miami is a large legal market are misleading in that regard.  Second, the OCI process, by which local big-size firms hire, gives a tremendous advantage to students at the very top of the class.  Firms pick largely--almost exclusively--on grades for their initial interviews; the same group of students often interview for the same jobs.

So I can answer your quesiton rather confidently, at least in regard to UM.  If you finish in the top ten percent of the class, then you have a darn good chance of working in a local big-size firm.  In fact, you will also have a chance to work in a national firm; I know quite a few at the top of the class that have secured biglaw summer associate positions in NY, DC, and other east coast cities this summer.  But, the cut-off is fairly immediate.  Save one or two out of the top ten percent, I don't know of others who have secured local biglaw jobs for the summer. 

I hope this better answers your question re UM.  I apologize for knowing little about University of Arizona, but I suspect it is similar.  I generally tend to agree that where you move beyond the top thirty or so schools, competition for biglaw is stiff, regardless of the school or location.  Part of the reason why lower-ranked schools curve the way they do is because employeers want to have a guage by which to measure students they seek to hire.  It's nothing to complain of, but another aspect of the sometimes not-always-so-pleasant reality of law school. 

So, where do the rest of the graduates end up at UM, i.e., those not in the top 10 percent?  Midlaw firms?  Small firms?  (And what do you define as such?)

excellent question! I would like to know this too!

UnbiasedObserver

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2007, 07:05:21 AM »
To work at a local big-size firm in Miami upon graduation from UM, you still need to finish in the top 10 percent of your class--or better--to do so. 

I am a 2L at UM and there are many things about the school that are excellent.  I think that I have gotten a good education here.  But, I state the following to a lot of people considering the school.  Just because UM is the highest-ranked school is South Florida does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that doing well in the class--top third, for example--will get you into local big law.  The reason for this, I believe, is twofold.  First, local summer associate programs generally consist of one to eight students; in a program of eight, UM might place two students, the others coming from other local and national schools.  Miami is not New York, where firms often place thirty to eighty summer associates.  So, the available spots are less.  I sometimes think that statistics showing that Miami is a large legal market are misleading in that regard.  Second, the OCI process, by which local big-size firms hire, gives a tremendous advantage to students at the very top of the class.  Firms pick largely--almost exclusively--on grades for their initial interviews; the same group of students often interview for the same jobs.

So I can answer your quesiton rather confidently, at least in regard to UM.  If you finish in the top ten percent of the class, then you have a darn good chance of working in a local big-size firm.  In fact, you will also have a chance to work in a national firm; I know quite a few at the top of the class that have secured biglaw summer associate positions in NY, DC, and other east coast cities this summer.  But, the cut-off is fairly immediate.  Save one or two out of the top ten percent, I don't know of others who have secured local biglaw jobs for the summer. 

I hope this better answers your question re UM.  I apologize for knowing little about University of Arizona, but I suspect it is similar.  I generally tend to agree that where you move beyond the top thirty or so schools, competition for biglaw is stiff, regardless of the school or location.  Part of the reason why lower-ranked schools curve the way they do is because employeers want to have a guage by which to measure students they seek to hire.  It's nothing to complain of, but another aspect of the sometimes not-always-so-pleasant reality of law school. 

So, where do the rest of the graduates end up at UM, i.e., those not in the top 10 percent?  Midlaw firms?  Small firms?  (And what do you define as such?)

excellent question! I would like to know this too!

Yeah, I'm considering applying there next year, so it would be nice to know.

UnbiasedObserver

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2007, 09:18:21 PM »
Buuuuummmmppp

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Re: University of Arizona vs. U of Miami
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2007, 10:26:16 PM »
tag