University of Arizona vs. U of Miami

[agent433]

in terms of AZ, it doesnt seem to me that theres that many big law firms, only a few in Phoenix and thats about it.  Also, why r the salaries for both U of A and ASU are really low (only in the 60s and 70s)

[umass22]

in terms of AZ, it doesnt seem to me that theres that many big law firms, only a few in Phoenix and thats about it.  Also, why r the salaries for both U of A and ASU are really low (only in the 60s and 70s)

ok thank you! I guess i don't have to bother sending U of A a LCI now.

[n/a]

in terms of AZ, it doesnt seem to me that theres that many big law firms, only a few in Phoenix and thats about it.  Also, why r the salaries for both U of A and ASU are really low (only in the 60s and 70s)

ok thank you! I guess i don't have to bother sending U of A a LCI now.

Part of it is that Arizona is reputed for their public interest and tribal/hispanic law... another part is that cost of living in Arizona is still relatively low.

[keelee]

They're roughly equal. Slight edge to Miami.

Joke?

Miami does NOT have an edge over UofA.  By what standards are they "roughly equal?"  In what world does Miami have a "slight edge?"  Maybe you're confusing Arizona with Arizona State?

By the way, UofA is in Tucson... someone said Tempe.  ASU is in Tempe.

It does have an edge if you want a high-paying job. UM is in a large legal market. That right there gives it an edge. Phoenix is not a large legal market, nor is Tucson. Once you get out of the top forty or so (some would say top thirty), the differences between schools are almost minute. There is not a significant difference between UM and UofA. It is a question of geography.

[kulrythm]

Are we seriously comparing a T1 school with a T2 school in terms of quality?

Miami is the THIRD best school in Florida, whereas UofA is the BEST school in Arizona.  The UofA is also ranked higher than any school in Florida in general.  

Also, simply looking at overall starting salaries as a means of determining quality is a fallacious line of thought.  

There are several career paths that get included into the overall average salary for a school.  For example, UofA sent 22% of its 2006 graduates to judicial clerkships, and another 15% to government agencies.  8% went to academia or on to further degrees.  4% went to public interest jobs.  In fact, over 50% of the 2006 class chose careers in public service or government.  These are careers that are notoriously low-paying.  To factor them into the overall average salary and then dismiss such an average as "low" is unfair to the school and to yourself.  You are ignoring the important contributing factors to the average.

If you consider only average private law firms as a basis for comparison, UofA beats Miami, with $90,000 and $82,000 respectively. The high salary for UofA was $135,000 and only $110,000 for Miami.  

Also, the 22% judicial clerkships from UofA is no small feat.  Consider the fact that Miami only has 4% judicial clerkships.  

By all standards of quality, UofA performs better.  

[n/a]

Are we seriously comparing a T1 school with a T2 school in terms of quality?

Miami is the THIRD best school in Florida, whereas UofA is the BEST school in Arizona.  The UofA is also ranked higher than any school in Florida in general. 

Also, simply looking at overall starting salaries as a means of determining quality is a fallacious line of thought. 

There are several career paths that get included into the overall average salary for a school.  For example, UofA sent 22% of its 2006 graduates to judicial clerkships, and another 15% to government agencies.  8% went to academia or on to further degrees.  4% went to public interest jobs.  In fact, over 50% of the 2006 class chose careers in public service or government.  These are careers that are notoriously low-paying.  To factor them into the overall average salary and then dismiss such an average as "low" is unfair to the school and to yourself.  You are ignoring the important contributing factors to the average.

If you consider only average private law firms as a basis for comparison, UofA beats Miami, with $90,000 and $82,000 respectively. The high salary for UofA was $135,000 and only $110,000 for Miami. 

Also, the 22% judicial clerkships from UofA is no small feat.  Consider the fact that Miami only has 4% judicial clerkships. 

By all standards of quality, UofA performs better. 

Hello adcomm... can you let me in please? 

[keelee]

Are we seriously comparing a T1 school with a T2 school in terms of quality?

Miami is the THIRD best school in Florida, whereas UofA is the BEST school in Arizona.  The UofA is also ranked higher than any school in Florida in general. 

Also, simply looking at overall starting salaries as a means of determining quality is a fallacious line of thought. 

There are several career paths that get included into the overall average salary for a school.  For example, UofA sent 22% of its 2006 graduates to judicial clerkships, and another 15% to government agencies.  8% went to academia or on to further degrees.  4% went to public interest jobs.  In fact, over 50% of the 2006 class chose careers in public service or government.  These are careers that are notoriously low-paying.  To factor them into the overall average salary and then dismiss such an average as "low" is unfair to the school and to yourself.  You are ignoring the important contributing factors to the average.

If you consider only average private law firms as a basis for comparison, UofA beats Miami, with $90,000 and $82,000 respectively. The high salary for UofA was $135,000 and only $110,000 for Miami. 

Also, the 22% judicial clerkships from UofA is no small feat.  Consider the fact that Miami only has 4% judicial clerkships. 

By all standards of quality, UofA performs better. 

Dude, all that shows is that you don't know much of the Florida market and that you read too much into the rankings. The schools ranked between around 40 and 90 are not very disimilar.

Also, while UM is the "third" best school in Florida, it is the most prestigous, it's graduates make the most money, it travels the farthest out of state, has the strongest alumni network, and it is considered to have the best faculty, largely thanks to location.

I wouldn't read much into your stats, and the highest salary for a UM grad was $160k, which two Miami BigLaw firms pay.

UM, UofA, UF, ASU, and FSU are very comparable schools and extremely similar in quality. It comes down to where you want to live. 

[kulrythm]

They're roughly equal. Slight edge to Miami.

Joke?

Miami does NOT have an edge over UofA.  By what standards are they "roughly equal?"  In what world does Miami have a "slight edge?"  Maybe you're confusing Arizona with Arizona State?

By the way, UofA is in Tucson... someone said Tempe.  ASU is in Tempe.

It does have an edge if you want a high-paying job. UM is in a large legal market. That right there gives it an edge. Phoenix is not a large legal market, nor is Tucson. Once you get out of the top forty or so (some would say top thirty), the differences between schools are almost minute. There is not a significant difference between UM and UofA. It is a question of geography.

Phoenix is the 6th largest city in the country.  Miami comes in at 45th.  Tucson also beats Miami by about 15 spots in terms of population.  Is your assertion that Miami is in a large legal market based on fact or opinion?  Perhaps population is not the only contributing factor to "legal market" size, but I am honestly curious where this statement comes from.  

Also, your statement about getting "out of the top forty" seems to be baseless.  For example, Miami is 70th and Cooley is somewhere in the T4 range.  Is it reaonable to assert that Miami and Cooley are equivalent in terms of quality and career opportunity that they provide to for their graduates?  After all, they are both outside of the top 30-40 range that you have arbitrarily established.  

I am not trying to be rude, but I think that you are making several logical leaps and assumptions that simply aren't supported by facts.  If a person's goal is to live in Miami, then perhaps the argument could be made that UM is the best choice.  However, if a person wishes to attend the best school between Arizona and Miami, and receive the best education and have the best overall employment opportunities, then UofA is the obvious choice.  I think it is a little rediculous to even argue the point.

[kulrythm]

Are we seriously comparing a T1 school with a T2 school in terms of quality?

Miami is the THIRD best school in Florida, whereas UofA is the BEST school in Arizona.  The UofA is also ranked higher than any school in Florida in general. 

Also, simply looking at overall starting salaries as a means of determining quality is a fallacious line of thought. 

There are several career paths that get included into the overall average salary for a school.  For example, UofA sent 22% of its 2006 graduates to judicial clerkships, and another 15% to government agencies.  8% went to academia or on to further degrees.  4% went to public interest jobs.  In fact, over 50% of the 2006 class chose careers in public service or government.  These are careers that are notoriously low-paying.  To factor them into the overall average salary and then dismiss such an average as "low" is unfair to the school and to yourself.  You are ignoring the important contributing factors to the average.

If you consider only average private law firms as a basis for comparison, UofA beats Miami, with $90,000 and $82,000 respectively. The high salary for UofA was $135,000 and only $110,000 for Miami. 

Also, the 22% judicial clerkships from UofA is no small feat.  Consider the fact that Miami only has 4% judicial clerkships. 

By all standards of quality, UofA performs better. 

Dude, all that shows is that you don't know much of the Florida market and that you read too much into the rankings. The schools ranked between around 40 and 90 are not very disimilar.

Also, while UM is the "third" best school in Florida, it is the most prestigous, it's graduates make the most money, it travels the farthest out of state, has the strongest alumni network, and it is considered to have the best faculty, largely thanks to location.

I wouldn't read much into your stats, and the highest salary for a UM grad was $160k, which two Miami BigLaw firms pay.

UM, UofA, UF, ASU, and FSU are very comparable schools and extremely similar in quality. It comes down to where you want to live. 

Again, starting salaries are a function of the area of law a person goes into.  Judicial Clerkships are highly prestigious and competitive positions, that pay very poorly.  Also, certain specialties are standardized across the nation in terms of starting salaries, adjusted for cost of living.  For example, intellectual property pays the same essentially no matter what firm you go to.  $160k in Miami for an IP job is similar to $120k in Arizona for the same job.  The cost of living in Miami is significantly higher, so it is important to take this into account.

Also, what evidence is there that Miami is the most "prestigious" law school in Florida?  Florida does significantly better than Miami in terms of "prestige" or peer-assessment in any review or ranking that I've ever seen. 

[kulrythm]

Hello adcomm... can you let me in please? 

haha... okay... you're in