Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Stanford ASW go Go GO!  (Read 7440 times)

prolesurge

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2007, 11:44:07 AM »
did no one else get the feeling that it feels like a cloistered country-club compound?  like...the people were nice...and they do seem happy...but i just couldn't get over the campus...or the lack of a surrounding city...this is what happens when you spend too much time on the east coast.  stanford feels like plastic.  i have a lot of other things to say, but is the the ASW post-wrap thread?

I think, for the benefit of those who couldn't make it to the SLS ASW, you should go ahead and write everything you feel compelled to write about.

I know what you mean about the country-club feel of it all. I met one admit who, and I'm not saying I agree with this, described Stanford as "Ikea-chic".

Denny Crane

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 5383
  • Where's my Shirley Schmidt-ho?
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2007, 01:01:42 PM »
did no one else get the feeling that it feels like a cloistered country-club compound?  like...the people were nice...and they do seem happy...but i just couldn't get over the campus...or the lack of a surrounding city...this is what happens when you spend too much time on the east coast.  stanford feels like plastic.  i have a lot of other things to say, but is the the ASW post-wrap thread?

I think, for the benefit of those who couldn't make it to the SLS ASW, you should go ahead and write everything you feel compelled to write about.

I know what you mean about the country-club feel of it all. I met one admit who, and I'm not saying I agree with this, described Stanford as "Ikea-chic".

I like Ikea!

(There's one in New Haven, so be prepared to be bombarded by efficient Swedish furniture if we room together  ;))
Yale.Law.School.2010

TotsRound2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
    • LSN Profile
    • Email
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2007, 02:11:21 AM »
did no one else get the feeling that it feels like a cloistered country-club compound?  like...the people were nice...and they do seem happy...but i just couldn't get over the campus...or the lack of a surrounding city...this is what happens when you spend too much time on the east coast.  stanford feels like plastic.  i have a lot of other things to say, but is the the ASW post-wrap thread?

I think, for the benefit of those who couldn't make it to the SLS ASW, you should go ahead and write everything you feel compelled to write about.

I know what you mean about the country-club feel of it all. I met one admit who, and I'm not saying I agree with this, described Stanford as "Ikea-chic".

ok, here goes:

pros: beautiful
- dean and faculty seem committed to the community (though this is true at HLS too.)
- good clinical programs (again, this applies equally to H)
- seems like there is a real sense of community (blah blah blah...i'm just offering the banal positives so that I can move on to my negatives.  and this is one thing that i think H lacks).
- students were fun (oh man, bowling night was a BLAST.  I hear team H kicked team Y's ass...but again, that's only a rumor.)
- did I mention it was beautiful?

cons: the campus feels very isolated.  it's huge, sprawling, self-contained.  if you like that...then you'll like stanford.  if you like a campus that feels more connected to a city...then you might find it lacking.
- once you get off the compound, you're not exactly in berkeley, austin, or cambridge (if you dislike cambridge, then there is really no reason to read further; you and i obviously don't agree on whether the sky is blue or on which direction is up).  Palo Alto really requires a car, and feels like plastic suburbia.  Not a ton of character in the way that <coughs in Denny's direction> certain neighborhoods in cambridge do. 
- that intimate sense of community...comes with a price.  place feels SMALL.  Like, everyone knows everyone...fabulous...or is it?  i talked to one student who said that there can be a surprising amount of discord...and that it gets pent up in a school that small.  spending 3 years in that ugly building seems rather distressing.
- the public interest commitment/depth of options seemed inferior compared to H.  I may be mistaken, but I believe that H offers more money each summer for PI fellowships.  Also, most importantly, HLS and YLS's loan forgiveness programs are noticeably superior to Stanford's.  Stanford requires you to spend at least 3 years before they start to pick up any of the tab, and even then it's only a certain percentage.  H and Y let you come and go, without such time requirements.  If you take a job for 18 months with the ACLU - H and Y will help you out for 18 months before you go back to Skadden.  Also, H and Y actually write you a check.  Stanford gives you a LOAN that is then forgiven (to varying degrees depending on how much time you spend in PI work).  Not ideal.  H and S seem equally stingy in what counts.  Both schools have told me that working as a speechwriter or as a legislative assistant wouldn't qualify; you'd have to be on the legislator's counsel team.  Yale has told me something very different: they said I could be flipping hamburgers, and they'd still help out.  To them, it seems to be much more about the "can you pay your loans without being thrown into bankruptcy court."  The woman at Y told me that she sends checks every month to a student who got out and didn't like the law, and who now works as a painter and high school teacher.  or something like that.  it was an odd story, so don't quote me on that.


Diecisiete

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2007, 02:37:23 AM »
tag
CLS 2L

baytostay

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2007, 04:33:29 AM »
Hi, I'm an SLS 1L (who was one of the leaders of Proleserg's small group discussion session--the SLLSA one--but please don't out me).  Just wanted to let you guys know that if you had any unresolved questions from your visit or couldn't make it out in person, I'd be happy to answer any and all questions.


Denny Crane

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 5383
  • Where's my Shirley Schmidt-ho?
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2007, 08:45:52 AM »
Yale.Law.School.2010

xk

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2007, 10:24:32 AM »
I concur with many of the negatives that TotsRound2 mentioned.  Stanford did feel a little too much like a country club or resort and I was definitely turned off by how much you would need a car.

Regarding LRAP, Harvard's LIPP has more flexibility in that you don't have to work in PI for x number of years.  Stanford's LRAP, however, is superior in many other respects.

1) Stanford's LRAP payments are substantially higher.  For example, if you made $60,000 a year, Harvard would require you to pay $583 per month.  Stanford, meanwhile, only requires a contribution of $187 per month. 

2) Stanford's LRAP has an upfront asset allowance of $130,000, which is very beneficial for people who have been out of school for a while.  Harvard only protects up to $10,000 upon graduation plus $8,000 for every full year worked between college and law school. (In the interest of full disclosure, I think Harvard allows you to save up to $8,000 per year.) 

3) Harvard allows a deduction of $6,000 for the first child and $3,600 for each additional child.  Stanford allows a $8,000 deduction for every child. With two dependents and a salary over $70,000, my monthly loan payments, according to Stanford's LRAP calculator, would be around $20, or what I currently pay for Netflix. (Harvard allows you to subtract reasonable child care expenses from your salary.  How much I'm not sure. Also, Harvard has a six-month parental leave provision, which Stanford does not.)



Princessa1

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 157
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2007, 11:00:00 AM »
Hi, I'm an SLS 1L (who was one of the leaders of Proleserg's small group discussion session--the SLLSA one--but please don't out me).  Just wanted to let you guys know that if you had any unresolved questions from your visit or couldn't make it out in person, I'd be happy to answer any and all questions.


baytostay...is it true what tots said about the LRAP at Stanford? what are the limitations? you really have to work three years before you get any loan help? b/c i completely missed that point at the public interest panel.

also if you have any comments about the social environment at Stanford...I would be interested to hear your input. at this point I am leaning towards Stanford although I do have a few misgivings...mostly about the limited social scene in terms of small student body combined with lack of city to find out of school friends. is it unlikely that i would befriend other grad students?
Harvard Law School, Class of 2010!

Anne Shirley

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2007, 02:05:42 PM »
Before I post my impressions I will say that I am an older student with a family, and what most of you guys see as a minus in terms of the social environment, I see as a huge plus.  I donít need to feel like Iím in the center of some huge metropolis.  Suburbia is a good place to raise kids. 

I am a warm-weather person and I donít think Iíll function as well in the cold weather.  I was stuck on Harvard until I went to admit weekend, where it snowed. I was thrilled at first, but after two hours, I realized that negotiating slush isnít my thing.

I love Stanford for the following reasons:
   1. The weather is beautiful and inspiring and will   contribute to a state of mind that will allow me to excel.
   2. Living on campus will be quite convenient for me  in terms of accessibility of preschool/school for my kids.  (Both are right across the street from family       housing).  This is a huge load off my mind.
   3. There seems to be a considerably large population of students, both male and female, with families, probably because of #1 and #2 above.
   4. There are tons of job options in the area in my husbandís field. 
   5. Accessibility of faculty and a small population.
   6. Plenty of nearby summer job opportunities (which is what Michigan didnít offer).
   7. Plenty of places/activities that are close to nature and family-centered.  Beaches less than an hour away; San Francisco nearby; plenty of parks, trails, etc.Plus, Napa and tons of places within a slightly longer driving distance.
   8. A very generous financial aid package.

Here is how Stanfordís admit weekend went.  It started with minority preview day on Friday, which was absolutely fantastic.  I enjoyed all of the activities on that day, especially dinner at a professorís house.  At one point, which was also the moment I felt really sure Stanford was for me, I was sitting at a table with a professor and the dean who were telling me stories about their kids.  The professor and I talked extensively and he offered his assistance in a couple of areas.  I left that dinner feeling like I already had a support system at Stanford. I was elated after that because I felt like Iíd finally made my decision.

I donít know what happened on Saturday, because I ditched the activities and went to the beach with my husband.  The schedule looked awesome, but I didnít need any more convincing.

On Sunday, I jumped back into the activities. I attended really informative panels, and had the chance to talk extensively with another professor at lunch, which was held in a gorgeous courtyard on a beautiful day.  Current students were enthusiastic, happy and eager to share their experiences.  I loved the mock class and the small group dinner I attended.

Harvardís ASW paled in comparison.  Stanford made every effort to showcase their strengths.  Professors were at multiple events and were mingling with the admits.  They also knew many of the current students by name. We were well-taken care of in terms of food and transportation.  The vibe I got at Stanford was friendly and relaxed.  The vibe at Harvard was stilted.  I also got the impression that there were some minority issues at Harvard that might make me feel alienated. Most of the students I spoke with were sure about coming to Stanford. 

I honestly feel that Iíll thrive at Stanford, that Iíll be supported in my endeavors, and that my family will be happy. 

Itís a huge load off my back to have chosen a school.  Iím excited about the transition and ready for what comes next.
SLS 2010

245

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Stanford ASW go Go GO!
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2007, 02:49:33 PM »
I agree with Anne Shirley-- Stanford definitely felt more welcoming, close-knit, and embracing of diversity.  The ASW really played to the school's strengths: community, location, and quality of life.

Of the HYS bunch, Stanford is probably the least well-known as an academic powerhouse, but it's still a great school. Attending SLS won't shut you out of clerkships, academia, or biglaw.  The clinical programs are excellent, and opportunities in corporate law, finance, and business are outstanding because of the location and specializations.  I suspect that, because many of the students are firm-bound, grades are not as much of an issue at SLS.  Most students do a lot of stuff (and also downplay their achievements and activities), but there seem to be fewer gunners than at HY.

Personally, I like the idea of knowing everyone in law school and having a sense of community.  When I visited Harvard, the law students I met and saw didn't seem as friendly or as happy.  At Harkness Commons, for example, pretty much all of them ignored the admits and did their own thing, and most people ate alone at their tables.  Even at the HLS student fairs, the students didn't seem as approachable.  At a few tables, I stood around for 3-5 minutes waiting while the people staffing the booths ignored me entirely to talk to other people.

In contrast, at Stanford, a lot of law students made an effort to get to know admits.  On minority preview day, students took admits to a bar/lounge; on Saturday, a lot of law students showed up for bowling, and I even got to go clubbing with the Outlaw group.  When I mentioned that a former co-worker is now a 2L at Stanford, one of the law students ran off and got him for me.  On Sunday, I had dinner with next year's student body presidents (both double minorities).  More so than Harvard (which had lots of presentations by faculty), Stanford focused on students and alumni, and their Stanford Law experiences.

There are probably a lot of people for whom quality of life is less important than academic/professional opportunities, and if that's the case, HY are most probably better choices.  Dean Koh, for one, seems to think that people who choose law schools based on weather, relationships, geography, convenience or other similar concerns deserve what they get.  But I think that QOL is pretty important to the overall law school experience with regards to the relationships we build with classmates and professors, our academic success, mental well-being, etc.

I'm not committed to Stanford yet, but I think that if I do attend (based on the relationships, geography, convenience and other reasons), I will be really really happy there.
SLS '10 and now working.  PM me if you want to get in touch!