Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

How many more years until College and Graduate AA programs are scrapped?

1-2 years
2-5 years
5-10 years
10+ years

Author Topic: Poll: How much longer does AA have?  (Read 5211 times)

Titus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
    • MSN Messenger - mhtitus@uark.edu
    • AOL Instant Messenger - matitus04
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - marion_email
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2007, 07:25:51 PM »
I think affirmative action will always exist. As for its enforcement, I think it will go down as we perceive ourselves to be a more diverse society, regardless of whether or not the perception is true.

As for the welfare comment, I think the question would be better structured based on a percentage of a particular race rather than the whole US. For example, if my fake sample includes 10 whites on welfare, 2 blacks on welfare, one black not on welfare and 30 whites not on welfare, then more whites (as a total number) would be on welfare. However, a greater percentage of blacks would be. Therefore, it could be argued that "more" blacks are on welfare as a percentage and benefit more, although they get less money.

Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!!

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
  • Exhibiting the discipline necessary for Law School
    • View Profile
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2007, 12:22:43 AM »
I think affirmative action will always exist. As for its enforcement, I think it will go down as we perceive ourselves to be a more diverse society, regardless of whether or not the perception is true.

As for the welfare comment, I think the question would be better structured based on a percentage of a particular race rather than the whole US. For example, if my fake sample includes 10 whites on welfare, 2 blacks on welfare, one black not on welfare and 50 whites not on welfare, then more whites (as a total number) would be on welfare. However, a greater percentage of blacks would be. Therefore, it could be argued that "more" blacks are on welfare as a percentage and benefit more, although they get less money.

listen to what I am saying.  Welfare benefits MOSTLY.  POOR.  White people.  people are not percentages and fractions.  if I have 10 white people and two black people on welfare out of 50 whites and ten blacks its really about WHITE people, it just so happens a few blacks benefit from it.  if it was just those two black people the program would not have existed in the firstplace.  the program was an answer to the amount of whites enmasse who needed/need such programs.  black people benefit in an ancillary capacity - even if we make up a tenth of the population and a third of the rolls.  that said, that 2/3rds is enormous and is what keeps the programs in existence.  at any rate, as as the black to white ratio rises we will move away from such programs.  I'm intuitive like that, and I know many will make the argument that blacks benefit more from welfare than white people.  and before you go screaming angry black man, I feel bad for those massive amounts of poor white people who will not have these programs to benefit from.  whereas others wouldn't even acknowledge there existence but for all the black people on welfare taking their tax money...   
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

philibusters

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2007, 08:39:26 AM »
I think affirmative action will always exist. As for its enforcement, I think it will go down as we perceive ourselves to be a more diverse society, regardless of whether or not the perception is true.

As for the welfare comment, I think the question would be better structured based on a percentage of a particular race rather than the whole US. For example, if my fake sample includes 10 whites on welfare, 2 blacks on welfare, one black not on welfare and 50 whites not on welfare, then more whites (as a total number) would be on welfare. However, a greater percentage of blacks would be. Therefore, it could be argued that "more" blacks are on welfare as a percentage and benefit more, although they get less money.

listen to what I am saying.  Welfare benefits MOSTLY.  POOR.  White people.  people are not percentages and fractions.  if I have 10 white people and two black people on welfare out of 50 whites and ten blacks its really about WHITE people, it just so happens a few blacks benefit from it.  if it was just those two black people the program would not have existed in the firstplace.  the program was an answer to the amount of whites enmasse who needed/need such programs.  black people benefit in an ancillary capacity - even if we make up a tenth of the population and a third of the rolls.  that said, that 2/3rds is enormous and is what keeps the programs in existence.  at any rate, as as the black to white ratio rises we will move away from such programs.  I'm intuitive like that, and I know many will make the argument that blacks benefit more from welfare than white people.  and before you go screaming angry black man, I feel bad for those massive amounts of poor white people who will not have these programs to benefit from.  whereas others wouldn't even acknowledge there existence but for all the black people on welfare taking their tax money...   

For the most part didn't Bill Clinton kill welfare? 
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

1654134681665465

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2007, 04:09:02 PM »
Quote
whereas others wouldn't even acknowledge there existence but for all the black people on welfare taking their tax money...   

I don't care who you are or what color you are-stop taking tax payer money.  I do believe that there are some who honestly do need government assistance, however, the majority of people on welfare are using it as a crutch instead of a helping hand. 

philibusters

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2007, 07:23:05 PM »
Quote
whereas others wouldn't even acknowledge there existence but for all the black people on welfare taking their tax money...   

I don't care who you are or what color you are-stop taking tax payer money.  I do believe that there are some who honestly do need government assistance, however, the majority of people on welfare are using it as a crutch instead of a helping hand. 

I can sort of agree with that.  I don't mind giving tax payer money to those in need, but I also acknowledge that it does give at least some people a dis-incentive to work.  You def. can't live large off welfare, but the problem was that it was poor unskilled people receiving it and thus they weren't going to earn much, at least initially in the workforce.  In fact, a lot of them probably would have started at min. wage and thus it was easy value their leisure over the difference between working and welfare.  Its somewhat analogous to stay at home mom's, there are a lot more stay at home mothers wth a high school education with earning potential in the 20,000's than stay at home moms with M.D. with earning potential in the hundred of thousands of dollars. 
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

biomed engineer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2007, 10:42:08 PM »
The policy was outlawed in a few states.  I moved to Florida in 2002 and discovered that affirmative action had been outlawed two years later.  During that time (1999-early 2000), there were large protests against the pending ban.  Minorities organized a pro-AA demonstration near the state legislature buildings.  But the policy was banned.  In the aftermath, the tension has largely faded.  I have lived here five years, and I have never witnessed another minority complain that it is gone.  I am Apache Indian.

However, when I have blogged about it by simply stating historical facts (i.e. above), I have gotten hate mail from other minorities outside of Florida who still want affirmative action to stay alive at their state or school.  As I stated earlier, I had NOTHING to do with the ban of 2000 in FL.  I was living in Colorado at the time.  However, like other minorities, I have managed to stay successful in college by merit alone without any AA policy.  Minority enrollment has actually increased.  Life goes on.

I am not naive though.  I know that the AA discussion still brings a lot of tension on college campuses where the policy still exists.  I know that some anti-AA students hold affirmative action "bake sales" to protest the policy, which usually brings a lot of tension.  At Colorado's Medical School, a white student told me that many other whites don't see the minorities as having earned admission by merit alone, which is ironic.  I knew minority medical students who had MCAT scores in the mid-30s.  So Colorado still has tension, but it might be outlawed over there in 2008.  The same might occur in Arizona.  It depends a lot on Ward Connerly.  He and Jennifer Gratz led a drive to outlaw affirmative action in Michigan.  They are concentrating on more states. 

Here in FL, affirmative action is already gone, so it's really a non-issue.  I have lived here for five years and interacted with many other minorities.  I have never heard them complain that it is gone.  I have heard people (both whites and minorities) complain about FEMA or gas price gouging after hurricanes (i.e. Hurricane Charley of 2004 or Ivan; not to mention Katrina, which also hit Miami).  But I've never heard any harsh arguments about affirmative action.  They did occur back in 1999-2000 within the protests, but that is from another time.

philibusters

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Poll: How much longer does AA have?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2007, 10:50:23 PM »
I support AA, but I always find it interesting to hear for a person with minority status who doesn't support AA.  AA is more about group justice, history, the political system, its not about individual justice.  I think AA probably creates more lawyers, more college grads, et cetera, and it helps a lot of minority students have opp's that might not have been offered to them.  However, AA does affect some people of minority status negatively, I don't think that much can be denied, I just think the benefits outweigh the negative.  Why don't you support AA?
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School