I wish...

[katluva33]

BTW, I should make it clear that I don't actually care what link you provide, as I don't intend to read it or give any serious reasoned thought to any point you make.  However, it's your responsibility to prove wrong my assumptions about your statement by doing all of my research for me...


Just thought it should go both ways...

[Hank Rearden]

I have a dream...

[dashrashi]

I have a dream...

A) Not funny; B) Don't be a shitheap. Thx.

[katluva33]

Honestly, I don't think there's one wholesale answer.  Race is extremely complicated and impacts every aspect of our lives, so there isn't a single fixit that anyone has.  It will take action in all sectors of society, not just college (I agree with you that it needs to be addressed at the elementary school level), and not just education.

However, I think the single biggest obstacle is public opinion, which is why I said I want people to study race (however unlikely it may be).  As you said, the only people studying it now are the people who are already inclined to see race as an issue.  The problem I have is not that people don't agree with me, is that people do so without doing serious research or self-education on the matter.  Granted, not all people are like this, but the vast majority of people that I have these debates with only think about race when it means that they may not get into the school they want.  My desire would be that schools, including my liberal arts college, made more of an effort to canonize works about race in their primary literature.  At my school, you could get out of college without reading anything by a black person, and the one book you may be required to read is almost 100 years old, which doesn't do a very good job of telling people that these are current issues and concerns that didn't evaporate just because we hear the I Have A Dream speech every February.  I find it troubling that a school that turns out politicians and CEOs doesn't really do much of anything to ensure that graduates are even marginally versed in race beyond mere experiential anecdotes. 

FWIW, I'm not judging people for "resenting the fact that his or her LSAT score means less than someone else's with an identical score based on race."  My issue is with people taking these and similar anecdotal experiences and extrapolating them into policy analysis (AA should be done away with and we should only talk about class) without doing the research; my issue is also that those same people that you say I'm judging will be the very first to judge me and my accomplishments "based on race".

[Hank Rearden]

I have a dream...

A) Not funny; B) Don't be a shitheap. Thx.

Hey Dash!  Hope you're having a nice day!

[ieatpoo]

Well said.  Simply put, law schools lie.


People FOIA'ed some public school admit records (Boalt, Michigan, etc) and it's fairly obvious the law schools lie.  Diversity doesn't matter.  Skin color does.

Schools lied through their teeth and said AA is just a minor boost in marginal cases.  That's not it at all.  Whether or not they'll admit to it, AA ends up as a 10ish point bump in the LSAT for every, single black applicant.



New court is going to tear them to shreds.

Oh boy, I'd love to know where you got these statistics, so unless you can provide a link, I'll assume you're making it up.  Again you're only looking at the fact that it is unfair to whites, and (I assume) yourself.  However, I feel that diversity (which you haven't mentioned) is a wonderful thing in the classroom.  If you can honestly say that diversity has no impact on education or the learning process, then I'd have to call you ignorant.  The classroom is the one place where ideas and views can be expressed, discussed, and debated, but this debate won't occur if everyone has the same views.  People might not realize how important this is because they haven't been exposed to it!  You can not honestly say the educational experience will not be enhanced with a class that includes discussions from the different viewpoints that people of different races and different experiences hold.  I'd like to propose an idea.  If you feel that AA affects you so much and injures you in a concrete way sue an institution that has discriminated against you.  Have you been discriminated against?  Has anyone white person on this board been discriminated against?  If so, stop complaining and do something.  For once in history, there might be a policy that doesn't favor white people (even though I think it does because it exposes them to new ideas and experiences)!  OH MY GOD!  The horror!   

[ieatpoo]

I took calculus with a few wanna-be doctors who couldn't do algebra.


Same thing with economics.



This is at Harvard FFS.




How did "diversity of being able to do algebra" positively affect my learning process?

You don't do math in law school.  And is math the only subject you take?  Do you take any classes where people exchange views?  I suppose that nothing I say can convince you that diversity of opinion, experience, and viewpoint is important the educational process.  Hopefully, you will find out one day.

[segundo]

Well said.  Simply put, law schools lie.


People FOIA'ed some public school admit records (Boalt, Michigan, etc) and it's fairly obvious the law schools lie.  Diversity doesn't matter.  Skin color does.

Schools lied through their teeth and said AA is just a minor boost in marginal cases.  That's not it at all.  Whether or not they'll admit to it, AA ends up as a 10ish point bump in the LSAT for every, single black applicant.



New court is going to tear them to shreds.

Oh boy, I'd love to know where you got these statistics, so unless you can provide a link, I'll assume you're making it up.   Again you're only looking at the fact that it is unfair to whites, and (I assume) yourself. 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-241

"In recent years there has been virtually no change, for example, in the proportion of law school applicants with LSAT scores of 165 and higher who are black. In 1993 blacks constituted 1.1% of law school applicants in that score range, though they represented 11.1% of all applicants. Law School Admission Council, National Statistical Report (1994) (hereinafter LSAC Statistical Report). In 2000 the comparable numbers were 1.0% and 11.3%. LSAC Statistical Report (2001)."

[ieatpoo]

Well said.  Simply put, law schools lie.


People FOIA'ed some public school admit records (Boalt, Michigan, etc) and it's fairly obvious the law schools lie.  Diversity doesn't matter.  Skin color does.

Schools lied through their teeth and said AA is just a minor boost in marginal cases.  That's not it at all.  Whether or not they'll admit to it, AA ends up as a 10ish point bump in the LSAT for every, single black applicant.



New court is going to tear them to shreds.

Oh boy, I'd love to know where you got these statistics, so unless you can provide a link, I'll assume you're making it up.   Again you're only looking at the fact that it is unfair to whites, and (I assume) yourself. 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-241

"In recent years there has been virtually no change, for example, in the proportion of law school applicants with LSAT scores of 165 and higher who are black. In 1993 blacks constituted 1.1% of law school applicants in that score range, though they represented 11.1% of all applicants. Law School Admission Council, National Statistical Report (1994) (hereinafter LSAC Statistical Report). In 2000 the comparable numbers were 1.0% and 11.3%. LSAC Statistical Report (2001)."

Is this in reference to what I said?  I'm not sure if this is supposed to back me up or refute what I was saying because its so out of context.  It does not indicate that being black gives you 10 more points on your LSAT however...so I'm not sure what the point of this is...

[ieatpoo]

Well said.  Simply put, law schools lie.


People FOIA'ed some public school admit records (Boalt, Michigan, etc) and it's fairly obvious the law schools lie.  Diversity doesn't matter.  Skin color does.

Schools lied through their teeth and said AA is just a minor boost in marginal cases.  That's not it at all.  Whether or not they'll admit to it, AA ends up as a 10ish point bump in the LSAT for every, single black applicant.



New court is going to tear them to shreds.

Oh boy, I'd love to know where you got these statistics, so unless you can provide a link, I'll assume you're making it up.   Again you're only looking at the fact that it is unfair to whites, and (I assume) yourself. 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-241

"In recent years there has been virtually no change, for example, in the proportion of law school applicants with LSAT scores of 165 and higher who are black. In 1993 blacks constituted 1.1% of law school applicants in that score range, though they represented 11.1% of all applicants. Law School Admission Council, National Statistical Report (1994) (hereinafter LSAC Statistical Report). In 2000 the comparable numbers were 1.0% and 11.3%. LSAC Statistical Report (2001)."

Is this in reference to what I said?  I'm not sure if this is supposed to back me up or refute what I was saying because its so out of context.  It does not indicate that being black gives you 10 more points on your LSAT however...so I'm not sure what the point of this is...

God you're stupid.


I'm off this thread.

Ok, not sure what that was in reference to.  Again, I feel like I have to explain this to you.  They don't get points added to their LSAT!!!  You may think they do because they may get in over a white who has scored higher, but their acceptance is based on their experiences, and other soft factors that a test can not measure.  You haven't shown me that AdComs added ten points on to their LSAT!!  Just remember this.  It's so easy to hate, comdemn, and ridicule (history has proven this) but so hard to understand, empathize, and love.  Please don't grow up to hate.  I know its hard for you, since you're so set in your opinions, but try to understand.  Try to understand what its like growing up dirt poor in a broken home, try to understand what its like when your own country hates you.  Please?