Law School Discussion

UCLA VS UT

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2007, 04:37:21 PM »
Obviously more information  needs to be brought to light about residency. If you do not have residency at the start of your law school education, your won't get residency just by living in Texas and going to UT law - so in other words, the residency tuition benefit would not kick in for 2nd and 3rd year - you would just end up paying the non-resident tuition for all 3 years. You can't get residency for going to school at UT because Texas only gives residency to people who indicate that they want to make a domicile in Texas, not people who just want to comoe  and take advantage of the educational institutions. So, if you go to UT as  a non-resident, you won't get resident tuition during the subsequent years. If you need more information, you should contact the residency officers at UT because the website isn't as informative as it should or could be.

Yes, this defiantly seems like a topic worth getting worked up about.  ::)

I was trying to alert you to a perk of your recent marriage that you may not have realized yet, but hey? I can see you?d rather I take my suggestions elsewhere.

Theoretically your residency would kick in for the 2nd and 3rd year taking your costs down to $29,268.
$ 43766 + 2($29,268) =  $102,302

Your Cornell #s have you out of there at $122,865.

It?s your money, spend it however you want.


At ASW they said something about being able to gain residency later if you are working and going to school or if you purchase property. Of course, there are stipulations so UTxhalfer is correct in saying that the only real way to get the right answers is to contact the residency office personally.

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2007, 04:39:13 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the point of your thread.  It seemed very clear from the get go that you made up your mind.  Go to UCLA, have fun.  That is obviously where you want to be.  No real use in dragging the thread out any longer because it is obvious that you don't want to actually hear any advice, you just want someone to confirm your choice.  Have the courage to just make the choice yourself.  You don't need to be validated by people on this board.  If you can't make decisions without others approval you likely won't go very far in either law school and certainly will struggle regardless of what you make your occupation.   I will pose a question for you though, if your boyfriend really means that much to you, then why would you let a minimal cost difference (considering your job prospects coming out of either school) and a minimal rankings difference make your decision for you?  Both Law schools have been very well thought of for a very long time.  Neither are suddenly going to go under and screw your job prospects.  The economy will have more control of your future employment than any change in rankings between these schools will.  Make the decision you want and stop crying to complete strangers for attention.

In case I came off too harsh, let me make it clear that I had no issue with the OPs original post.  Her subsequent posts are the ones that made it clear she wasn't actually interested in hearing any advice.  I wish her well, but suspect a substantial attitude change will be required if she is to be truly successful.

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2007, 05:16:06 PM »
I'm not asking someone to  validate my decisions for me. Actually, i'm  trying to find out more information about the  consequences of the choices - in other  words, what would be the difference  between going to UT veresus UCLA, what are the opporunities available, is there any advice regarding h ow to get scholarship money from a school, what are the various job prospects repsective to each of ther schools, and etc.

Contrary to other posters' opinions, I would rather go to UT than go to UCLA because of my bf. I am  not decided on UCLA whatsoever and I am not a  UCLA troll. I didn't even know what a "troll" was until my UT law boyfriend explained to me that law  schools sometimes pay people to patrol popular websites and post messages benefitting their schools.  Anyways, like I said, I would rather go to UT and be with my boyfriend. I  don't want to be away from him, but I w ant to knkow whether people think this type of  factor in my decision making should not be as significant as other factors and what those other factors are.

If you think there is not point in responding to this thread, then don't respond. Don't waste time responding with a message stating that there is no point in responding to this thread.

Anyways, I'm going to try to negotiate one more time with UT this  coming week and find out if they can offer me scholarhsip money to match  the offers  from other schools. If they offer  some money, then I'll most likely end  up going to  UT. If they continue to offer no money at all,  then  I might have  to go to UCLA or another school. That's all. Any comments  about other factors that I should consider are welcome.

NB: UT doesn't allow 1Ls to work but if you do a part-time job or something while you are a 2L for 12 months, then you could get residency for your 3rd year. Otherwise, if you enter UT as a non-resident, more likely than nont, you will end up paying non-resident tuition all the way to at least 3rd year.

NB: UT doesn't match need-based scsholarships or grants. They will only match scholarship offers that are merit-based and they have to be from similarly ranked or higher ranked schools. So in other words, rankings are important to law schools.


I'm not sure I understand the point of your thread.  It seemed very clear from the get go that you made up your mind.  Go to UCLA, have fun.  That is obviously where you want to be.  No real use in dragging the thread out any longer because it is obvious that you don't want to actually hear any advice, you just want someone to confirm your choice.  Have the courage to just make the choice yourself.  You don't need to be validated by people on this board.  If you can't make decisions without others approval you likely won't go very far in either law school and certainly will struggle regardless of what you make your occupation.   I will pose a question for you though, if your boyfriend really means that much to you, then why would you let a minimal cost difference (considering your job prospects coming out of either school) and a minimal rankings difference make your decision for you?  Both Law schools have been very well thought of for a very long time.  Neither are suddenly going to go under and screw your job prospects.  The economy will have more control of your future employment than any change in rankings between these schools will.  Make the decision you want and stop crying to complete strangers for attention.

In case I came off too harsh, let me make it clear that I had no issue with the OPs original post.  Her subsequent posts are the ones that made it clear she wasn't actually interested in hearing any advice.  I wish her well, but suspect a substantial attitude change will be required if she is to be truly successful.

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2007, 06:45:44 PM »
from lawclerkaddict's blog,


 Percentage of clerks by school
(The percentage represents the % of a given class that will be clerking for the 2007-2008 term. The denominators for class size include both full-time and part-time students. The numerators are not adjusted to exclude alumni who will clerk from current students, and include both alumni and current students.)

2 Stanford 27.2%
1 Yale 21.6%
3 Harvard 10.1%
22 Notre Dame 7.4%
6 Chicago 6.3%
7 Penn 5.8%
11 Duke 5.0%
8 Michigan 4.9%
8 Boalt 4.2%
16 Texas 4.1%
17 Vanderbilt 4.0%
4 NYU 3.8%
15 UCLA 3.8%
8 Virginia 3.5%
4 Columbia 3.4%
----------------------------------
I realize this isn't exactly your area of interest, but Clerkship placement is a good indicator for how a well a school is considered, and from this it should be obvious that both schools are thought of extremely well.  You can compare the list of firms that recruit at both schools if you want, but I'm not sure that is what you are looking for. 

Your job prospects coming out of either school are going to be great.  They both place amazingly well in their home states, but also have national reach.  Both schools have all the top firms come in to recruit.  Both schools have the same scholarly reputation of 4.0 on the latest Us News report.  Texas has a 4.3 rating from employers,  compared to a 4.0 for UCLA. 

The reason it seemed to be that you weren't actually interested in listening to advice is that everyone was telling you the two schools place just as well as each other.  Some of the specific information you want is hard to find, but if you do well at either school you are assured of a good job anywhere.  If you want to practice in big law in NYC you'll probably have to do just as well at either of the schools, top 20% or so.   I've decided on UT, but wouldn't have any problems with attending UCLA for the same price.  I have several friends at UT Law right now and they are all getting great jobs their 2nd year, and they aren't all top of the class.  Socially they all love UT and think (obviously biased) that it is the best social enviroment for law schools.  They enjoy their classes and like their professors as much as one can be reasonably expected to like someone whose goal it is to push you to your limits.

BTW, don't underestimate how horrible having to pay a state income tax can be.

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Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2007, 07:05:06 PM »
Another thing to consider: the UC Regents recently approved a 10% increase for fees next year. SO instead of being 25+K it will be almost 28. Considering the trends at this so-called public school (in 2001 tuition was 11K) you can probably expect your tuition to keep going up way faster than the inflation rate.

And financial aid isnt always adjusted accordingly. Last year they raised fees in the middle of the year so during second semester people just had to deal with 2,500 less money to live on. Not cool.

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2007, 11:34:17 PM »
To qualify as a Texas resident, an individual who is a U.S. citizen or permanent resident immigrant must live in Texas for at least 12 consecutive months without attending any institution of higher education. Registration in a college or university in Texas during this 12-month period is interpreted under law as demonstrating only an intention to make use of the state's higher education system, and not an intention to establish domicile in Texas. An applicant or student who is claimed as a dependent on a parent's most recent federal tax return will be classified based on the parent's qualifications for residency.
 
Q. How do I establish residency?
A. One must be an independent (not claimed as a dependent for income tax purposes), US citizen or permanent resident, (have a green card, also known as card I-551 or the evidence of I-551 stamp in the passport) or international student who is eligible to establish a domicile in Texas and live in the state of Texas for 12 consecutive months and establish a domicile in Texas prior to enrollment.
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Q. How do I establish a domicile in Texas?
A. A domicile in Texas is presumed if, at least 12 months prior to the census date of the semester in which he or she is to enroll, at least one of the following applies: 1) the person owns real property in Texas, 2) the person owns a business in Texas, 3) the person is married to someone who has established a domicile in Texas, 4) the person has had gainful employment other than work-study and other such student employment in Texas.
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Q. If I am temporarily absent from Texas, will I lose my status as a Texas resident?
A. The temporary absence of a person or a dependent’s parent from the state for the purpose of service in the U.S. Armed Forces, Public Health Service, Department of Defense, U.S. Department of State, as a result of an employment assignment, or for educational purposes, shall not affect a person’s ability to continue to claim that he or she is a domiciliary of this state. The person or the dependent’s parent shall provide documentation of the reason for the temporary absence.
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Q. What do I need to do, or what documents do I need to fill out when I apply for Residency?
A. A prospective student must have an admission application on file before submitting the Residency Core Questions or the Residency Affadavit. Currently enrolled students may submit the Residency Core Questions once they or their parents have lived here for 11 consecutive months.
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Q. What other documents should I turn in with the Residency Core Questions?
A. You are not required to submit any supporting documents with the Residency Core Questions. After reviewing your Residency Core Questions form, documentation may be requested by the residency officer. You will be notified via mail if additional information is required.


Q. I live in a state other than Texas and I am marrying a Texas resident. Does marriage to a Texas resident make me a Texas resident?
A. Marriage to a Texas resident does not give that person immediate residency. A U.S. Citizen Permanent Resident or international student with an immigration status that allows them to domicile in the U.S. who is the spouse of a Texas resident must live in the state of Texas for 12 consecutive months. The spouse is allowed to attend school during the 12 months if he or she chooses but will pay out of state tuition for the first 12 months. After 1 year, if there is enough evidence to indicate that the individual has otherwise made Texas their permanent residence they may apply for reclassification.
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Q. I applied for residency and was denied Texas residency by the residency officer. What can I do now?
A. You can appeal this decision. You need to write a letter stating why you should be considered a Texas resident and any additional information to state your case further and address it to the Residency Committee. The committee will set a meeting date to review the appeal. If the Residency Committee also denies the appeal, the student has the right to two further levels of appeal after the Residency Committee.

Q. What other waivers are available for which I may be eligible?
A. A. Information concerning waivers can be found at CollegeForTexans.com.

Q. I received Resident status some time after classes started. Will I get a refund for the out-of-state portion fee bill that I have previously paid?
A. The Residency Core Questions must be submitted by the census date (12th class day) of the relevant term in order for a Texas resident classification to be effective for that current semester.

Q. I couldn't find an answer to my question in this FAQ list. Who can I contact for more information?
A. For general residency information or to leave a message for a call back please call: (512) 475-7391. To speak with the residency officer, Deana Williams, please call (512) 475-7408. You may also call Christina Schoch at (512) 475-7407 for assistance with residency questions.


Obviously more information  needs to be brought to light about residency. If you do not have residency at the start of your law school education, your won't get residency just by living in Texas and going to UT law - so in other words, the residency tuition benefit would not kick in for 2nd and 3rd year - you would just end up paying the non-resident tuition for all 3 years. You can't get residency for going to school at UT because Texas only gives residency to people who indicate that they want to make a domicile in Texas, not people who just want to comoe  and take advantage of the educational institutions. So, if you go to UT as  a non-resident, you won't get resident tuition during the subsequent years. If you need more information, you should contact the residency officers at UT because the website isn't as informative as it should or could be.

Yes, this defiantly seems like a topic worth getting worked up about.  ::)

I was trying to alert you to a perk of your recent marriage that you may not have realized yet, but hey… I can see you’d rather I take my suggestions elsewhere.

Theoretically your residency would kick in for the 2nd and 3rd year taking your costs down to $29,268.
$ 43766 + 2($29,268) =  $102,302

Your Cornell #s have you out of there at $122,865.

It’s your money, spend it however you want.


In tuEE84's case, being married to a Texas resident is sufficient to establish domicile and therefore become a resident. Everything I've heard from both students and staff leads me to believe that they do infact reassess residency during your tenure at UT. While going to school is simply not enough, there are other things one can do (or in this case has already done) to make it happen.

Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2007, 12:46:57 AM »
As per Linda Alba (Director of FinAid) two days ago, these rules have changed. I suggest you call the residency office with your specific issues if you have questions.

Based on the fact that Linda Alba is not the residency officer but instead is in charge of Financial Aid, I don't think she would be the best source for definitive information about residency. Plus, she even says herself that the Financial Aid department is completely separate from the main campus and law school records regarding residency - therefore, she doesn't know about residency and once again, the best person to call would be the residency officer, Deana Williams, at (512) 475-7408. You can also call Christina Schoch at (512) 475-7407 for assistance with residency questions. Otherwise, I would take the facts off the UT website as copied and pasted today, as being more accurate. Until they change their website to say there are changes, I would  think listening to someone from Financial Aid would not be the best idea as to getting accurate information regarding Residency.


   

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Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2007, 07:56:45 AM »
In the end, this is a decision you're going to have to make. Which do you want more? Your boyfriend and a little bit more debt or California, potentially entertainment law and less debt?

If your boyfriend isn't worth the 7k or whatever difference in tuition, then go to UCLA. If your boyfriend isn't worth giving up the slight possibility you'll end up in entertainment law, then go to UCLA. If, however, your boyfriend is worth more to you (probably meaning he's marriage potential), go to Texas. In general though, get over the fact you weren't offered money. Your decision should involve absolute numbers -- don't overestimate the value of a scholarship.

I'm going to sound like a flame or something, but this thread begs the question: Are you sure your boyfriend isn't feeding you all this information in order to get you out of his hair? The suggestion is probably laughable, I understand, but there we are.

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Re: UCLA VS UT
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2007, 09:45:13 PM »
How much younger is your boyfriend that you were out of school long enough to move to austin 8 months ago to see him and he'll still be at UT next year? Like was he a senior when you were a freshman?

If you want to work in TX afterwards, go there, if you want to be in Cali afterwards, go to UCLA. Honestly, as long as he isn't going to spend six years in UT or something then he should be able to come out with you after the first year. And it's probably for the best if he's not in your hair the first year and you can dedicate yourself completely to law school.