Law school for the rest of us: Advice/questions for/from T2/3/4 students:

[Freak]

I'm T3 or wait we jumped to a T2..

I worked very hard the first semester, and gave up the second. It really boiled down to legal writing draining me and my time.

Welcome Freak!

Boy thats the truth. legal writing was a total time sink, I spent more time/effort on that class than any other 1L, and it was only worth 2 credits, I did however am jur it, but it hurt my other grades by not putting as much time into them. In retrospect, pick your battles, all that work on 2 credits was not a smart move on my part.

my scholarship only require successful academic progress as well.  i echo matthies and freak with respect to the time legal writing sucks up; as i've spent my entire spring break week on an appellate brief, as well as putting way too much time into it last semester.  i almost did as well, i was 3/131 in that class.  but, that is the only class i was asked about in any interview, besides one person who wanted to know about legal research - the 1 semester hour class.

i had an interview yesterday, and the first thing out of her mouth was 'we were impressed by your writing sample and grade"

so i dunno.  perhaps that is the right battle to fight.

and freak -- a 3.3?  jeebus, i only need a 3.25 to graduate with honors....

  oh well it all matters not, I have the end in sight, I will finish the race. If I pass the BAR in 2 tries or less I have a job.

that just seemed ridiculously high to me.  perhaps its because youre on a higher curve.  no offense intended

The curve is about a 2.75 average for 1L

[RN to JD]

Well, of course the vast majority of people here are in their mid-20s, but there also a good bit of non-trads. Quite a few people in my section are married with kids, or are starting a 2nd career (including one nurse).  Hope this helps.

Thanks, that does help. I have a niece that works on campus in the publicity dept. and she is going to try to hook up a lunch with the dean for me. She doesn't do the pub. for the  law school, but her best friend does. Maybe this, a stellar LSAT and my winnning personality will help. I really don't think I will have much of a problem fitting in, esp. with other medical people there. Thanks alot.

[RN to JD]

I have a lady in my class who is 70ish, her husband was in the class too but he had to drop out becuase he was a volunteer with red Cross and had to go help with Katrina. I know there are 3-4 others at the school in thier 70's, we also have two MD's in my class, one of which is number 1!

I know you probably won't say, but I have to ask. Where do you go to LS?? That sounds like a wonderfully diverse class.

[RN to JD]

You are a good man Rev. 

shhhhhhhhh! for god's sake, dont tell anybody!

I was just about to send all of my deliquent Ar. friends to see you for counselling. Oh well, I will just keep it under my cap 

[Thistle]

You are a good man Rev. 

shhhhhhhhh! for god's sake, dont tell anybody!

I was just about to send all of my deliquent Ar. friends to see you for counselling. Oh well, I will just keep it under my cap 

send the hot ones 

[RN to JD]

You are a good man Rev. 

shhhhhhhhh! for god's sake, dont tell anybody!

I was just about to send all of my deliquent Ar. friends to see you for counselling. Oh well, I will just keep it under my cap 

send the hot ones 

You got it!! 

[ptown]

I lost a full scholarship as well....needed a 3.0 to keep it, had a 2.94.  I transferred soon after...came down to Case Western/Denver/Lewis Clark.  Chose the lowest ranked and am very happy.  I'm 38.

In that case, I'm posing the same questions to you that I posed to Freak: was it that difficult to keep it, or was it more a case of you not putting in enough work to do so?

I was almost in the top 1/3 of my class...around 36%.  I probably could have studied more efficiently, but its just flat out a numbers game.  For example, I got a 91% first term in Legal Writing which was an A.  The following term I was at 92%....B+.  The middle of our class was around a 2.8 and classes like Con Law had means around a 2.3.  With 40% of the students with some form of scholarship dependent on a 3.0, somebody is gonna lose.  

So... this is my take.

True "scholarships" require that you are in "good standing."

Any other money offers with contingencies should be considered "teaser rates"  There is just too much left to chance.  I can't tell you how much more pressure is added to your studies when a bad grade may cost you 30K.  I remember reading in a WUSTL brochure that they guaranteed their scholarships for just that reason, they wanted you to focus on the law and your contribution to the legal community, not your financial aid package.  Lower ranked schools have to offer money to attract high numbers...just the unfortunate facts.  They know their best students (with scholarships) may transfer and that there will be several who lose scholarships with gpas too low to transfer.  I don't think it is a scam, I just think it would be far more fair to let students (especially the younger ones) know that arbitrary grading systems and the abundance of conditional scholarships tied to gpas creates a very tense learning environment.  Like law school isn't tense already!

I guess the simple answer to your question is that I could have been more productive, but I'm not sure that it would have helped.  Had any one of my grades been just a tiny bit higher... I'd still have the scholarship.  

What about scholarships that are only tied to class rank and not GPA?  That is more fair wouldn't you say?

For the scholarship I am taking, I need to stay in the top 50%.  I think that is pretty rational and fair, I mean the school is laying out thousands of dollars for you to go there in the hopes that your success will be theirs when you graduate.  Why should they have to keep dishing out the money if you arn't living up to doing better than the average student? 

[John Blackthorne]

tag

i go to a law school on the cusp of T1, who knows, maybe it will be T2 by monday

taking questions, forcing my opinions down your throat

[laxlaw]

At this point, I do not have much to add to this conversation, but I would like to echo my fears of conditional scholarships.

Right now, I'm debating over a full ride at MSU (3.0), Kent (20k 3.25/10k 3.0) and Cincy (10k/good standing)

I would love the no debt, but I am terrified I'd be stuck in t3 ville michigan for the rest of my life if i dont hit a 3.0 my 1l year.
Being a lifelong MI resident, I can tell you how truly terrifying that prospect is.

This process is so nerve racking.

From first hand knowledge, I can tell you it is worse than athletic recruiting; there is more bull flung at you and a hell of a lot more pressure to perform.

[Astro]

I lost a full scholarship as well....needed a 3.0 to keep it, had a 2.94.  I transferred soon after...came down to Case Western/Denver/Lewis Clark.  Chose the lowest ranked and am very happy.  I'm 38.

In that case, I'm posing the same questions to you that I posed to Freak: was it that difficult to keep it, or was it more a case of you not putting in enough work to do so?

I was almost in the top 1/3 of my class...around 36%.  I probably could have studied more efficiently, but its just flat out a numbers game.  For example, I got a 91% first term in Legal Writing which was an A.  The following term I was at 92%....B+.  The middle of our class was around a 2.8 and classes like Con Law had means around a 2.3.  With 40% of the students with some form of scholarship dependent on a 3.0, somebody is gonna lose. 

So... this is my take.

True "scholarships" require that you are in "good standing."

Any other money offers with contingencies should be considered "teaser rates"  There is just too much left to chance.  I can't tell you how much more pressure is added to your studies when a bad grade may cost you 30K.  I remember reading in a WUSTL brochure that they guaranteed their scholarships for just that reason, they wanted you to focus on the law and your contribution to the legal community, not your financial aid package.  Lower ranked schools have to offer money to attract high numbers...just the unfortunate facts.  They know their best students (with scholarships) may transfer and that there will be several who lose scholarships with gpas too low to transfer.  I don't think it is a scam, I just think it would be far more fair to let students (especially the younger ones) know that arbitrary grading systems and the abundance of conditional scholarships tied to gpas creates a very tense learning environment.  Like law school isn't tense already!

I guess the simple answer to your question is that I could have been more productive, but I'm not sure that it would have helped.  Had any one of my grades been just a tiny bit higher... I'd still have the scholarship. 

Thanks for the thorough answer!

I suppose I'm also really curious about how difficult it is to maintain that sort of standing in a Tier 4 school.  I'd imagine that the student body is a little bit weaker -- not much, but some.