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Author Topic: Give me a reason to consider Barry  (Read 1066 times)

dante500

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2007, 02:44:34 PM »
So you all would consider Stetson over Barry ($$)?

Did you get money at Barry and not at Stetson?  That would make the decision harder for me.  Do you expect the possibility of money from Stetson yet?

I dunno what to say, really.  Getting school paid for was one of my top concerns when applying to schools, so I know what kind of internal this must be to make the choice.  If it were Miami with no money vs. Barry with the money, I would say Miami no question.  Stetson vs. Barry with money is a tougher position to be in.

In the long run I'd say your better choice is Stetson without, but this is me.
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obamacon

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2007, 02:55:17 PM »
I started the thread to get a reason to CONSIDER Barry, not to NOT consider it. Actually, thanks anyway for your input, but you are way off base and as such I have little else to respond to you with.

The only reason to consider Barry is if you have a good job waiting for you and no need to get a better one any time soon and can correctly predict when they will have accreditation.

Quote
You know what, even though you are off on your initial assumption, you make a valid point. If by chance my wife is stuck in Orlando, there is no reason we couldn't settle part way between Tampa and Orlando so I could attend Stetson, looking for her to get a transfer after some time.

Stetson isn't much better. I'm not kidding when I say you'd be nuts to not go to UF if you must stay in Florida. Ask around, see how different grads are treated, what they typically make and how often they're even employed in the legal field. Picking a T4 over a T1 is insane, there's really no other way to say it.

obamacon

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2007, 02:56:44 PM »
Didn't Barry lose its accreditation once already?  I've heard some horror stories about them.

That isn't even the half of it.

dante500

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2007, 03:03:15 PM »
I'm not in the business of defending law schools (at least not yet), and I have heard these stories about Barry losing accreditation, but I have never come across this info.  The only thing I have ever seen anywhere is that Barry became provisionally accredited at the earliest possible time and then gained its full accreditation in December 2006. If someone can provide eveidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it. It seems to have been in the same position as FIU; apply, gain provisional, and after requisite period gain full.
I once told a woman that I coined the phrase "pardon my French."

dante500

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2007, 03:15:06 PM »
I'm not in the business of defending law schools (at least not yet), and I have heard these stories about Barry losing accreditation, but I have never come across this info.  The only thing I have ever seen anywhere is that Barry became provisionally accredited at the earliest possible time and then gained its full accreditation in December 2006. If someone can provide eveidence to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it. It seems to have been in the same position as FIU; apply, gain provisional, and after requisite period gain full.

http://www.lc.org/misc/aba_index.htm

Scroll down.  Apparently, people went through law school at Barry and then weren't allowed to sit for the bar.

Yeah, they couldn't sit because Barry hadn't won provisional accreditation at that point.  That was the first wave of students.  They subsequently sued the ABA for antitrust, as they claim the ABA didn't respond quick enough to get the provisional accreditation process to a certain point that the first wave of students could sit for the bar.

But at that point Barry never had accreditation.  It gained provisional shortly after that, and then students were allowed to sit for the Bar, the regular process that all other schools have gone through/must go through. They have not lost accreditation after gaining provisional though.  There is a big difference between these two situations, whether prospective students or barry naysayers think so or not.

And I'm not defending them because I'll be going there or for any other reason.
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obamacon

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2007, 03:26:38 PM »
What's the other half?

1. The students are awful, as are the professors (I've visited, I know)
2. The two most common responses to a Barry degree are, "where's that," and "the position has been filled."
3. If you do get a job, you'll make much less money, have less of a chance of making partner, and so on
4. You have next to zero good summer opportunities.
5. I couldn't find one person with a Barry degree at Holland & Knight.
etc.

obamacon

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2007, 03:35:39 PM »
 Court rebuffs Barry grads
--------------------

By Scott Powers
Sentinel Staff Writer

May 17, 2002

The Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the first 111 graduates of the Barry University School of Law in Orlando cannot become lawyers in this state.

Citing its own rules, the court said students who graduated before February 2001 cannot be allowed to take the bar exam because Barry was too far from accreditation at the time.

The decision dealt a crushing blow to students like Robin Drage, 44, who is wondering what to do now with a law degree that cost more than $60,000 in tuition, required countless hours of study, and caused sacrifices for her family.

"We're devastated. No one anticipated this result," said Drage, who earned her degree from Barry in January 2001.

A former elementary school teacher who now works as a legal aide on behalf of abused and neglected children, she dreamed of being a lawyer protecting children.

"It is my life dream, something I wanted to do since I was a child. You can't put a dollar value on your dreams," she said.

Barry officials huddled Thursday to see if they had any options left.

Graduates suggested that the school could ask the court for a rehearing or offer to re-teach affected graduates with some sort of tuition waiver.

Barry Law Dean Stanley Talcott and Vice President Peg Albert declined to speculate.

"Certainly, our concern is with the graduates. As always, the university will do all in its power," Albert said.

"What that means right now, I don't know."

The law school at 6441 E. Colonial Drive has always been a risk. Started as an independent school and purchased by Miami-based Barry University in 1999, it struggled for four years to win accreditation from the American Bar Association. Students knew nothing was certain.

The ABA finally granted provisional accreditation in February. But by then, many students already had graduated.

The Florida Supreme Court has a rule that if a new law school graduates people before it is accredited, then the school has 12 months to get accredited or those graduates cannot take the Florida Bar Examination. If they do not pass the exam, they cannot become lawyers.

The court let some of Barry's graduates take the exam anyway, and 69 did.

But their scores were sealed and now may get thrown out without ever being revealed.

9 passed bar exam

All of Barry's graduates since February 2001 qualify. Twenty-six of them have taken the bar exam. Nine passed.

Barry argued that it really didn't miss the court's deadline, saying the court should measure the 12 months to when the accreditation application was filed, not to when it was approved, because some delays are not the school's fault.

In fact, Barry filed its last application in 2000, though Barry had to rewrite it twice to keep it alive.

The court didn't buy it, saying the 12 months must be measured from the date the ABA actually awards provisional accreditation.

That wording could be a warning to the next two new law schools that will seek accreditation - the Florida A&M University College of Law in Orlando and the Florida International University College of Law in Miami, Talcott said.

The ruling is so narrow -- and the accreditation process so long -- that any failed application probably assures that some graduates will miss the court's deadline.

"It cuts it very, very close, even under the best of circumstances," Talcott said.

"Some schools do get accredited on their first try, but a negative ruling in the first attempt is not at all uncommon."

Many graduates, including Drage, are not giving up.

Some think a rehearing, questioning the rule's validity, might work. But not all Barry graduates are expecting another miracle.

"It's down to final," said Len Mancini, a January 2000 graduate who works in the legal department of the Orlando Utilities Commission and is seeking another law degree from St. Thomas University in Miami. "It's time to get on with life."

Not everyone was surprised by the ruling. Winter Park attorney Howard Marks is suing Barry on behalf of students who quit the school because they were convinced it did not do everything it could to win earlier accreditation.

'The law is harsh'

"But sometimes the law is harsh. For the students' sake, we absolutely wished the Florida court would have granted the petition," Marks said. "But since they did not, we are proceeding on behalf of the students, against Barry Law School."

Chuck Ward of Oviedo, who graduated in June 2000, said the rule is particularly unfair to people like Drage. If Barry had scheduled the commencement just a few weeks later, Drage and the 33 others in her class would have no problem.

Some students, he said, were known to have dragged out their education just because they were worried they might graduate too soon.

"Here's the crux of the problem," Ward said.

"Some of the students I sat side-by-side with for years, who I got better grades than, can now get licensed to practice law because they put off their graduation. And I can't because I didn't. That's why some people go into the legal profession -- to prevent that sort of unfairness."

Scott Powers can be reached at spowers@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5441.

Copyright (c) 2002, Orlando Sentinel

dante500

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2007, 03:47:50 PM »
Court rebuffs Barry grads
--------------------

By Scott Powers
Sentinel Staff Writer

May 17, 2002

The Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the first 111 graduates of the Barry University School of Law in Orlando cannot become lawyers in this state.

Citing its own rules, the court said students who graduated before February 2001 cannot be allowed to take the bar exam because Barry was too far from accreditation at the time.

The decision dealt a crushing blow to students like Robin Drage, 44, who is wondering what to do now with a law degree that cost more than $60,000 in tuition, required countless hours of study, and caused sacrifices for her family.

"We're devastated. No one anticipated this result," said Drage, who earned her degree from Barry in January 2001.

A former elementary school teacher who now works as a legal aide on behalf of abused and neglected children, she dreamed of being a lawyer protecting children.

"It is my life dream, something I wanted to do since I was a child. You can't put a dollar value on your dreams," she said.

Barry officials huddled Thursday to see if they had any options left.

Graduates suggested that the school could ask the court for a rehearing or offer to re-teach affected graduates with some sort of tuition waiver.

Barry Law Dean Stanley Talcott and Vice President Peg Albert declined to speculate.

"Certainly, our concern is with the graduates. As always, the university will do all in its power," Albert said.

"What that means right now, I don't know."

The law school at 6441 E. Colonial Drive has always been a risk. Started as an independent school and purchased by Miami-based Barry University in 1999, it struggled for four years to win accreditation from the American Bar Association. Students knew nothing was certain.

The ABA finally granted provisional accreditation in February. But by then, many students already had graduated.

The Florida Supreme Court has a rule that if a new law school graduates people before it is accredited, then the school has 12 months to get accredited or those graduates cannot take the Florida Bar Examination. If they do not pass the exam, they cannot become lawyers.

The court let some of Barry's graduates take the exam anyway, and 69 did.

But their scores were sealed and now may get thrown out without ever being revealed.

9 passed bar exam

All of Barry's graduates since February 2001 qualify. Twenty-six of them have taken the bar exam. Nine passed.

Barry argued that it really didn't miss the court's deadline, saying the court should measure the 12 months to when the accreditation application was filed, not to when it was approved, because some delays are not the school's fault.

In fact, Barry filed its last application in 2000, though Barry had to rewrite it twice to keep it alive.

The court didn't buy it, saying the 12 months must be measured from the date the ABA actually awards provisional accreditation.

That wording could be a warning to the next two new law schools that will seek accreditation - the Florida A&M University College of Law in Orlando and the Florida International University College of Law in Miami, Talcott said.

The ruling is so narrow -- and the accreditation process so long -- that any failed application probably assures that some graduates will miss the court's deadline.

"It cuts it very, very close, even under the best of circumstances," Talcott said.

"Some schools do get accredited on their first try, but a negative ruling in the first attempt is not at all uncommon."

Many graduates, including Drage, are not giving up.

Some think a rehearing, questioning the rule's validity, might work. But not all Barry graduates are expecting another miracle.

"It's down to final," said Len Mancini, a January 2000 graduate who works in the legal department of the Orlando Utilities Commission and is seeking another law degree from St. Thomas University in Miami. "It's time to get on with life."

Not everyone was surprised by the ruling. Winter Park attorney Howard Marks is suing Barry on behalf of students who quit the school because they were convinced it did not do everything it could to win earlier accreditation.

'The law is harsh'

"But sometimes the law is harsh. For the students' sake, we absolutely wished the Florida court would have granted the petition," Marks said. "But since they did not, we are proceeding on behalf of the students, against Barry Law School."

Chuck Ward of Oviedo, who graduated in June 2000, said the rule is particularly unfair to people like Drage. If Barry had scheduled the commencement just a few weeks later, Drage and the 33 others in her class would have no problem.

Some students, he said, were known to have dragged out their education just because they were worried they might graduate too soon.

"Here's the crux of the problem," Ward said.

"Some of the students I sat side-by-side with for years, who I got better grades than, can now get licensed to practice law because they put off their graduation. And I can't because I didn't. That's why some people go into the legal profession -- to prevent that sort of unfairness."

Scott Powers can be reached at spowers@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5441.

Copyright (c) 2002, Orlando Sentinel

While this is devastating and a potential blow to Barry reputation (alright, more than potential), you aren't suggesting that this is proof that Barry lost its accreditation are you?  If you are simply posting it as reason for people not to attend Barry and for it to stand on its own merits in this arena, okay, no argument, but as long as everyone realizes that this is not any proof that Barry ever lost its accreditation.

On another note, I feel genuinely bad for these guys who shelled out over $60,000 to effectively get what they could have got at Kaplan Law or one of the many fine online law establishments operating throughout California for about 1/8 of the price.  Sad.
I once told a woman that I coined the phrase "pardon my French."

Nellbelle

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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2007, 06:27:24 PM »
Stetson hands down over Barry in a heartbeat!!! Didn't they just make T2. If you can make the drive to Gainesville I would strongly recommend UF as well. I am a LS dropout that could kick myself for not taking the advice of not going T4 or at least going T3-t4 at a reputable school. I was stupid.....don't do it,especially since you don't have to11 That is insanity.
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Re: Give me a reason to consider Barry
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2007, 07:45:45 PM »
I live in Orlando, and people don't even recognize Barry here.  The only reason I could see people even consider it is if they couldn't get in anywhere else and looked to transfer after the first year.  I have a friend who was top of her 1L class at Barry and now goes to Emory.  Smart move.

I just drove to UF today and it's by no means far away.  You can get there in less than 2 hours from Orlando.