Law School Discussion

Biglaw in San Diego

Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 08:03:24 PM »
San Diego has three law schools all vying for a few new associate positions.  Jobs are totally coveted here. As a San Diego resident I see its pretty hard for new graduates to land a job here.  And not to sound harsh but if us San Diegans have a hard time landing a job here it would be really hard for someone who went to college out of state.  It's easier said than done to go to law school in Chicago and think you will move to San Diego and land a job out here.  Not an easy feat.


In all fairness, Univ of Chicago is on a completely different level than USD, let alone the other two law schools in SD, Cal Western and Thomas Jefferson.  I'm not saying a Chicago grad will have an easy time finding a job in SD, that I don't know.  But I'd only consider USD its competition.

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 08:04:34 PM »
san diego isn't a major legal market like Los Angeles, and San Fran.. San Diego is comparable to Denver, or Dallas without Fort Worth

San Diego has enough big firms seeing that it is not a major legal market and it only has 3 mil or so people.

But you should note that California has two major legal markets in the state.  Not many states can say this.  Los Angeles, and San Fran combined is HUGE.  If you go to a good Cali school then you have chances at all of these markets. 

But again, USD is in a smaller market.. but the data is comparable to Dallas which has a comparable population.


Dallas is the 5th largest metro in the US with close to 6M people. San Diego ranks 18th with 2.9M. They aren't close in population.



Umm no you are wrong.. I said Dallas ALONE without Ft. Worth.. Dallas metro is 3.8 million.  

These are the population totals for each city and it's immediate metro area.


Dallas–Plano–Irving TX 3,893,123
Fort Worth–Arlington TX 1,926,352

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

Dallas ALONE is 3.8 million... San Diego is 2.9 - 3 million.  And I looked at firm data from martindale.com and yes they are similar.

Sheesh.

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 08:13:40 PM »
First of all, agent, you are WAAAAAAY too concerned with going into biglaw. totally overrated (not the pay, but the hours). Lord knows if you'd actually want to/will be willing to work 70 hours a week after law school. That said, if ALL you want is big law, go to Loyola. San Diego is not a big law market. It is a small/medium firm market (just for the record, I think the definition of big law = 100+, medium = 26-99 and small = 25 and under; if I'm wrong it's at least my opinion which is more or less based on what I think I've seen before). Are there more big law jobs in LA? Duh. Is there a hell of a lot more competition for it? Duh. At the end of the day, if you want big law, you'll have to finish towards the top of your class no matter which school you ultimately decide on. BUT, if all you're concerned with is big law, then go to Loyola, there are more opportunities and it's easier to network.

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 08:42:01 PM »
san diego isn't a major legal market like Los Angeles, and San Fran.. San Diego is comparable to Denver, or Dallas without Fort Worth

San Diego has enough big firms seeing that it is not a major legal market and it only has 3 mil or so people.

But you should note that California has two major legal markets in the state.  Not many states can say this.  Los Angeles, and San Fran combined is HUGE.  If you go to a good Cali school then you have chances at all of these markets. 

But again, USD is in a smaller market.. but the data is comparable to Dallas which has a comparable population.


Dallas is the 5th largest metro in the US with close to 6M people. San Diego ranks 18th with 2.9M. They aren't close in population.



Umm no you are wrong.. I said Dallas ALONE without Ft. Worth.. Dallas metro is 3.8 million. 

These are the population totals for each city and it's immediate metro area.


Dallas–Plano–Irving TX 3,893,123
Fort Worth–Arlington TX 1,926,352

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

Dallas ALONE is 3.8 million... San Diego is 2.9 - 3 million.  And I looked at firm data from martindale.com and yes they are similar.

Sheesh.

I realize what you said. Since 2003, the US census no longer officially recognizes what were formerly known as MSAs (Metropolitan Statistical Area). The only recognize CMSAs, which, as a result, are now known as MSAs.

Saying Dallas "without Ft. Worth" is absolutly ridiculous. It is basicly like saying "Los Angeles, without East Los Angeles".

Dallas and San Diego don't compare.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/deansmessages/pdf/usnews_%20ranking_031407.pdf

You cannot take 1/3rd a city's metro and then say "look, it is comparable to San Diego." If that was the case, you would need to take away 1/3rd of San Diegos metro too. But you can't.

Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 08:49:45 PM »
First of all, agent, you are WAAAAAAY too concerned with going into biglaw. totally overrated (not the pay, but the hours). Lord knows if you'd actually want to/will be willing to work 70 hours a week after law school. That said, if ALL you want is big law, go to Loyola. San Diego is not a big law market. It is a small/medium firm market (just for the record, I think the definition of big law = 100+, medium = 26-99 and small = 25 and under; if I'm wrong it's at least my opinion which is more or less based on what I think I've seen before). Are there more big law jobs in LA? Duh. Is there a hell of a lot more competition for it? Duh. At the end of the day, if you want big law, you'll have to finish towards the top of your class no matter which school you ultimately decide on. BUT, if all you're concerned with is big law, then go to Loyola, there are more opportunities and it's easier to network.
again, id agree that it would be easier to find a biglaw job in LA, but i was just worried that all the UCLA and USC grads would get the majority of the jobs and that id have to be something ridiculous, like top 5%, to get a biglaw job from Loyola.

Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 09:48:07 PM »
First of all, agent, you are WAAAAAAY too concerned with going into biglaw. totally overrated (not the pay, but the hours). Lord knows if you'd actually want to/will be willing to work 70 hours a week after law school. That said, if ALL you want is big law, go to Loyola. San Diego is not a big law market. It is a small/medium firm market (just for the record, I think the definition of big law = 100+, medium = 26-99 and small = 25 and under; if I'm wrong it's at least my opinion which is more or less based on what I think I've seen before). Are there more big law jobs in LA? Duh. Is there a hell of a lot more competition for it? Duh. At the end of the day, if you want big law, you'll have to finish towards the top of your class no matter which school you ultimately decide on. BUT, if all you're concerned with is big law, then go to Loyola, there are more opportunities and it's easier to network.
again, id agree that it would be easier to find a biglaw job in LA, but i was just worried that all the UCLA and USC grads would get the majority of the jobs and that id have to be something ridiculous, like top 5%, to get a biglaw job from Loyola.

You will have to.  +/- 5-10%.  It's like that in any big market coming out of a T2 school.

USD will be no different, only BigLaw is less prevalent in SD, so it will be even tougher to find a BigLaw job.

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2007, 10:29:22 PM »
First of all, agent, you are WAAAAAAY too concerned with going into biglaw. totally overrated (not the pay, but the hours). Lord knows if you'd actually want to/will be willing to work 70 hours a week after law school. That said, if ALL you want is big law, go to Loyola. San Diego is not a big law market. It is a small/medium firm market (just for the record, I think the definition of big law = 100+, medium = 26-99 and small = 25 and under; if I'm wrong it's at least my opinion which is more or less based on what I think I've seen before). Are there more big law jobs in LA? Duh. Is there a hell of a lot more competition for it? Duh. At the end of the day, if you want big law, you'll have to finish towards the top of your class no matter which school you ultimately decide on. BUT, if all you're concerned with is big law, then go to Loyola, there are more opportunities and it's easier to network.
again, id agree that it would be easier to find a biglaw job in LA, but i was just worried that all the UCLA and USC grads would get the majority of the jobs and that id have to be something ridiculous, like top 5%, to get a biglaw job from Loyola.

You will have to.  +/- 5-10%.  It's like that in any big market coming out of a T2 school.

USD will be no different, only BigLaw is less prevalent in SD, so it will be even tougher to find a BigLaw job.

This sounds about right. But in all seriousness, if you are a "big law is the only thing i care for in life (obviously exaggerated)" then go to Loyola. I usually push for SD, but I try to be as objective as possible.

Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2007, 06:14:06 AM »
San Diego has three law schools all vying for a few new associate positions.  Jobs are totally coveted here. As a San Diego resident I see its pretty hard for new graduates to land a job here.  And not to sound harsh but if us San Diegans have a hard time landing a job here it would be really hard for someone who went to college out of state.  It's easier said than done to go to law school in Chicago and think you will move to San Diego and land a job out here.  Not an easy feat.


Is this really the case?  I know T-14 schools are supposed to have national appeal, but I'm wondering if that only applies to major legal markets.  Not to reignite a debate over whether San Diego is a major legal market, but clearly it is not on par with NY or LA.  My question is that because it seems to be a more regional market, do firms in SD tend to prefer local law school grads?  Do the T-14 which aren't Stanford or Boalt get respect out there?

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2007, 07:15:55 AM »
san diego isn't a major legal market like Los Angeles, and San Fran.. San Diego is comparable to Denver, or Dallas without Fort Worth

San Diego has enough big firms seeing that it is not a major legal market and it only has 3 mil or so people.

But you should note that California has two major legal markets in the state.  Not many states can say this.  Los Angeles, and San Fran combined is HUGE.  If you go to a good Cali school then you have chances at all of these markets. 

But again, USD is in a smaller market.. but the data is comparable to Dallas which has a comparable population.


Dallas is the 5th largest metro in the US with close to 6M people. San Diego ranks 18th with 2.9M. They aren't close in population.



Umm no you are wrong.. I said Dallas ALONE without Ft. Worth.. Dallas metro is 3.8 million. 

These are the population totals for each city and it's immediate metro area.


Dallas–Plano–Irving TX 3,893,123
Fort Worth–Arlington TX 1,926,352

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

Dallas ALONE is 3.8 million... San Diego is 2.9 - 3 million.  And I looked at firm data from martindale.com and yes they are similar.

Sheesh.

I realize what you said. Since 2003, the US census no longer officially recognizes what were formerly known as MSAs (Metropolitan Statistical Area). The only recognize CMSAs, which, as a result, are now known as MSAs.

Saying Dallas "without Ft. Worth" is absolutly ridiculous. It is basicly like saying "Los Angeles, without East Los Angeles".

Dallas and San Diego don't compare.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/deansmessages/pdf/usnews_%20ranking_031407.pdf

You cannot take 1/3rd a city's metro and then say "look, it is comparable to San Diego." If that was the case, you would need to take away 1/3rd of San Diegos metro too. But you can't.

no saying Dallas without Ft. Worth is not ridiculous.  I have lived in Dallas before, and to get to Ft. Worth you must drive on I-30 for about 30-35 minutes through Grand Prairie and Arlington, which are not small cities.. each city, Dallas and FTW has a major separate downtown area. 

I know that dallas/plano/irving have 3.8 million people per the wiki website I referenced earlier.  When yoou do use martindale.com and look up the total number of firms listed in "Sand Diego" and "Dallas" you get the following data.

Dallas

Firm size
? - 99:  15
100-149: 5
150-249: 7
250-999: 27
1000-?: 4

total: 58

San Diego

? - 99:  17
100-149: 5
150-249: 9
250-999: 17
1000-?: 6

Total: 54

So yes they are similar in this respect...

Los Angeles has a total of 158, and San Fran has a total of 112

I think another way to analyze the data would be to divide the number of firms in a city by it's total population creating an index number.  the city with the highest index number would have a higher firm/person ratio meaning possibly better opportunities.

 

keelee

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Re: Biglaw in San Diego
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2007, 09:10:40 AM »
no saying Dallas without Ft. Worth is not ridiculous.  I have lived in Dallas before, and to get to Ft. Worth you must drive on I-30 for about 30-35 minutes through Grand Prairie and Arlington, which are not small cities.. each city, Dallas and FTW has a major separate downtown area. 

35 minutes? So what? It takes 35 minutes to drive from one part of San Diego to the other. Heck, it takes 1hour to get from one side of Los Angeles to the other. Fact remains, Dallas-Ft. Worth is one legal market. It doesn't matter what the commute time is between the metro's two major urban centres. It's one freakin market. It always will be.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.