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pikey

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #130 on: May 09, 2007, 05:19:26 PM »
um Madness, i think you have to agree to disagree. i definitely disagree with the approach that epiphany and moni gave. still speaks to the divide imo. a wide spread movement like the bpp rocks the boat. sncc was a widespread democratic organization that was grassroots and created change from the bottom up. sat tutoring does not. lmao @ the boy scouts or sat tutoring being grassroots! i have some immigrant friends who agree with the idea of a widespread movement, but there are a whole lot who don't. my own feeling is that they see america as pretty much fine. i always want to ask, how is getting a high score on the sat going to change structural racism? i agree that kids need to learn to read but that is just the tip of the iceberg imo.

agreed.  I mean basically what they are proposing is a continuance of what is already going on.  I tudor kids in my spare time.  Know a couple big brothers.  no biggie.  Maybe they want more people to do it.  If thats the case, they agree with me more than disagree because the only way we get more people to do it is through a concerted, organized, effort.  It doesn't just happen. 

I went back and read through the posts again.  Moni asked how do we get this group together?  do we vote for them?  how do we get the funding? who gives them power?  I ask who gave the constitution power?  you write a proposal, and get support for it on a grassroots level.  Just like any group that has ever accomplished anything.  at any rate, that is getting into the logistics.  why even argue logistics if we can't even agree that is the way to go?  If we want it collectively, it can happen.  We can talk about logistics after we commit ourselves to the idea.  if we want to talk about how its unreasonable, as code for I'm not really feeling it anyway...it's not going to happen, ever. 

I really am seeing eye to eye with you Iman.  Hopefully I won't sell out.  I really I hope I don't. :-\.  alot of people here are going to some really great schools.  Whatever our beleifs, I hope we do the most we can with our opportunities.  It really starts now, with the mindsets we have going in.   

You're both misrepresenting my position.  It's not that I don't think a widescale movement will be effective.  I just don't think it's workable.  That's exactly why I asked about logistics.  It's all well and good to say that black people should work together to empower each other, but how is it going to happen.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I'm more interested in particulars and concrete ideas that ideals.
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lsn

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #131 on: May 09, 2007, 05:39:00 PM »
HYPO:  There is a meeting 7:00PM at the local community center.  It is being held by a group called "Democracy for Black Peoples".  On the flyer there are some talking points: "Lobbying for Politcal Power" "Strengthening our Communities" Electing local Leaders". 

Do you offer your expertise to aid these people in accomplishing their goals?  Maybe by helping out with the logistics?  Or do you simply not attend because it is "idealistic" and you don't go for that.  If it's the latter, that's fine.  Thats not to say you will not become part of the movement, or are opposed to it.  It just means you are not the type to see something from the ground up; someone else does that, you come in when it makes more sense.  You may come on board and lend your expertise after its already running.  It takes all types.  
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pikey

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #132 on: May 09, 2007, 05:46:31 PM »
HYPO:  There is a meeting 7:00PM at the local community center.  It is being held by a group called "Democracy for Black Peoples".  On the flyer there are some talking points: "Lobbying for Politcal Power" "Strengthening our Communities" Electing local Leaders". 

Do you offer your expertise to aid these people in accomplishing their goals?  Maybe by helping out with the logistics?  Or do you simply not attend because it is "idealistic" and you don't go for that.  If it's the latter, that's fine.  Thats not to say you will not become part of the movement, or are opposed to it.  It just means you are not the type to see something from the ground up; someone else does that, you come in when it makes more sense.  You may come on board and lend your expertise after its already running.  It takes all types.  

No, I would get involved if I thought that the group would meet the concerns of Black people.  But, imo, this is nothing new.  There are various groups that claim to speak for or to Black people.  But there are numerous Black people who claim that they don't...
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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #133 on: May 09, 2007, 06:03:09 PM »
HYPO:  There is a meeting 7:00PM at the local community center.  It is being held by a group called "Democracy for Black Peoples".  On the flyer there are some talking points: "Lobbying for Politcal Power" "Strengthening our Communities" Electing local Leaders". 

Do you offer your expertise to aid these people in accomplishing their goals?  Maybe by helping out with the logistics?  Or do you simply not attend because it is "idealistic" and you don't go for that.  If it's the latter, that's fine.  Thats not to say you will not become part of the movement, or are opposed to it.  It just means you are not the type to see something from the ground up; someone else does that, you come in when it makes more sense.  You may come on board and lend your expertise after its already running.  It takes all types.  

No, I would get involved if I thought that the group would meet the concerns of Black people.  But, imo, this is nothing new.  There are various groups that claim to speak for or to Black people.  But there are numerous Black people who claim that they don't...


I beleive you would, and I think that's great.  Alot of people would not "waste" their time.  I don't know of many groups.  I think many of our groups are so narrowly tailored:  100 black men, Black student union groups, frats, sorors, black women groups, NAACP, church groups, gay groups.  everyone has their own agenda.  I would like to see them come together. 

I'm sure you've heard of the silent majority.  I think that is a huge problem among black people.  Any number of those groups I listed have power disproportionate to their representation in our community.  Alot of it because of wealth that is distributed so unevenly, and because of the respect given to said groups by the status quo (dominant culture dictating again).  I don't think that is a good thing for black people.  I think it is why you have a few of these groups being so visible, yet nothing gets done in the communities.  They don't represent the people who need the most help.  They only help the needy as a side issue, secondary to their own agenda, which is their real agenda; despite the feel good messages they sell to the masses.

Their will always be people that claim they are not represented by whatever group.  Even America has anarchists.  It's a balancing game.  Does the good whatever group brings, outweigh whatever objections people might have.  If America becomes so foul, the balance will tip in the anarchists favor and their will be revolution - or dictatorship.  Like wise with black folk, if things have gotten so bad - like it has -  people like you and me begin to question whatever group has the "leadership role", and start coming up with new ideas.  I think that is always a good thing, and is merely the natural cycle of power and politics.   

 
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #134 on: May 12, 2007, 05:28:39 AM »
sweet epiphany,

aye have a problem with people assuming that race actually means something...some on this board have a problem with the fact that aye point out that they fail to apply logic to a term which people incorrectly throw around all the time.

sorry if others sway your opinion...as a trini aye think calling someone "black" is a passe term...bigoted and colorist and most importantly ignorant...it MOST certainly is not a race.

...no need to reply to this as aye am sure someone else will do it for you. ;)

good luck and remember...

beware the big bad BLUEwarrior. ;) :D :D

Interesting to say the least. I will say that just because of your own beliefs, you should not put down the thoughts and ideas of others, but that would be a respect issue and would allow for more free flowing intellectual discourse. To agree with what you said, Race is a passe term, but that does not make it real. Race is a sociological construct used to in fact separate and place people into groups. Now since it is a consrtuct, this mean it is MAN made, now it might NOT be "real" or mean something to you, but to many it does. In fact they based thier entire lives around it.


Now can it be disconstructed? YES and it is up to individuals like yourself to further educate, not obliterate, the others. If we choose to not use that term it would help the community a little more, but is that a fight that we need to overall spend a significant time on??? Me I would say maybe, but I am an idealist. It is like the argu8ment on the N word, should we focus our attention and energy on eradicating a word from AA's vocabulary soley because of its history or should we continue the mantra of we have changed the meaning and it no longer has that power (Sorry, not meant to HijaCK). Again I am an idealist, so when I look at it I would say, NO, but then I would say YES, because those two thigns would assist in the movement and progression of AA's towards better self image and improving how one feels about themselves. If you call yourself Black, you are referring to a color that has many negative conotations, yet if you refer to yourself as an African American, Trini American, African Brit or whatever you now have reconnected with your past, your HISTORY and made it YOURSTORY and now you have a bit of identification and feel the need to have something to live up to. Whereas many feel that they have no history, but being slaves and it reflects in many's slave mentality.

Sorry for being so long, but I was reading this and I like having intellectual conversation. Thanks again for humoring me and again these are my opinions based on my life and research being a sociologist. Many, I am sure willnot agree, but that is what provides for intellectual discourse as long as it remains RESPECTFUL! Thanks ;D ;D ;D

On a side note what does "px.o.rsta" mean?


glad to see someone understands...deconstruct??? hmmm? interesting...perhaps....you are on to something...
we have throughout history deconstructed faulty beliefs.


if aye chide those who absorb massive books on race and race concepts aye also chide the "pseudo-intellectual-educators" who sell passe information...so, please forgive me...in an attempt to enlighten aye get jocular and pushy...it's the trini spirit...it gets under some posters skin... ;) just read the puerile last few words of the poster below you... ::) {probably someone struggling with their identity.} the sociological construct of "manifest destiny" was once real...but we evolved...sure...eventually "race" will be REALized to be a delusion and some of us can't understand why one would take a step backwards and not continue to move forward...

peace px. out o. rasta...rsta...


it is not that black has negative connotations...to me it is not what black connotes...it is that it is a COLOR.

seriously...when one wishes to discuss race...they must list MOST of the races on earth...aye think it is a good start...define race and list the races...very fair.
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ladi

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #135 on: May 16, 2007, 08:47:54 AM »
That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?


Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

 
Hmmmm, you look and sound familiar...sending you a PM.

ladi

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #136 on: May 16, 2007, 08:54:28 AM »
glad to see someone understands...deconstruct??? hmmm? interesting...perhaps....you are on to something...
we have throughout history deconstructed faulty beliefs.


if aye chide those who absorb massive books on race and race concepts aye also chide the "pseudo-intellectual-educators" who sell passe information...so, please forgive me...in an attempt to enlighten aye get jocular and pushy...it's the trini spirit...it gets under some posters skin... ;) just read the puerile last few words of the poster below you... ::) {probably someone struggling with their identity.} the sociological construct of "manifest destiny" was once real...but we evolved...sure...eventually "race" will be REALized to be a delusion and some of us can't understand why one would take a step backwards and not continue to move forward...

peace px. out o. rasta...rsta...


it is not that black has negative connotations...to me it is not what black connotes...it is that it is a COLOR.


seriously...when one wishes to discuss race...they must list MOST of the races on earth...aye think it is a good start...define race and list the races...very fair.


I completely agree.

Astro

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #137 on: May 16, 2007, 01:28:05 PM »
That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?


Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

 
Hmmmm, you look and sound familiar...sending you a PM.


Didn't get one...
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ladi

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #138 on: May 16, 2007, 02:15:20 PM »
That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?


Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, tScottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

 
Hmmmm, you look and sound familiar...sending you a PM.


Didn't get one...


Sorry, I meant sweetepiphany. :)

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2007, 10:36:38 PM »
glad to see someone understands...deconstruct??? hmmm? interesting...perhaps....you are on to something...
we have throughout history deconstructed faulty beliefs.


if aye chide those who absorb massive books on race and race concepts aye also chide the "pseudo-intellectual-educators" who sell passe information...so, please forgive me...in an attempt to enlighten aye get jocular and pushy...it's the trini spirit...it gets under some posters skin... ;) just read the puerile last few words of the poster below you... ::) {probably someone struggling with their identity.} the sociological construct of "manifest destiny" was once real...but we evolved...sure...eventually "race" will be REALized to be a delusion and some of us can't understand why one would take a step backwards and not continue to move forward...

peace px. out o. rasta...rsta...


it is not that black has negative connotations...to me it is not what black connotes...it is that it is a COLOR.


seriously...when one wishes to discuss race...they must list MOST of the races on earth...aye think it is a good start...define race and list the races...very fair.


I completely agree.


one person gets it!!!!  8) <----{bluewarrior}   :o  :o :o :o <------- {bluewarriors associates}


...thank you...
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare