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Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!!

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #110 on: May 09, 2007, 01:03:26 PM »
Way to ignore the vast majority of my post...Way to also misrepresent my responses.  I must have been taking strawman lessons from you.  :D

I notice that you didn't respond to Epiphany, who gave a similar argument (though a lot more eloquently, being home sick doesn't exactly leave me with a lot of patience)

but moni, one of your posts was one line.  do you want me to qoute you verbatim?  you were making straw man arguments.  point blank.  epiphany was not more eloquent, she merely took the time to make an argument, which I responded to.  You did not do that.

Edit: NO FAIR!!! Moni's editing her posts!!!!!
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

SweetEpiphany

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2007, 01:07:06 PM »
That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?


Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

So, I inherit the stereotypes, and the burden of being African-American.  In the same way, being Caucasian in America means that you sometimes have to face being called the descendant of a slave holder, even if  your ancestors weren't.  If I walked around being offended all day, I wouldnt' get too much done.  As I said before, perception is reality...and my life's path has been largely determined by others' perceptions of me, as has yours.  I guess you would rather people only think about you in generalities, rather than speak, or write of you in generalities. That doesn't change much IMO.
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I will not allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for that is the great foundation of failure. ~Og Mandino

pikey

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #112 on: May 09, 2007, 01:12:39 PM »

That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?



Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

So, I inherit the stereotypes, and the burden of being African-American.  In the same way, being Caucasian in America means that you sometimes have to face being called the descendant of a slave holder, even if  your ancestors weren't.  If I walked around being offended all day, I wouldnt' get too much done.  As I said before, perception is reality...and my life's path has been largely determined by others' perceptions of me, as has yours.  I guess you would rather people only think about you in generalities, rather than speak, or write of you in generalities. That doesn't change much IMO.
That's an interesting question, because the first time I saw your tar I thought that you were from the Caribbean.  Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing people of Caribbean descent, but often we look different from people of African descent or African Americans.  Damn that inbreeding.  ;)  :D
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SweetEpiphany

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #113 on: May 09, 2007, 01:13:14 PM »
that diversity issue is a straw man argument.  clearly we are diverse.  I never said we weren't.  In fact what I did say is that we were diverse to our detriment, and that maybe what we need is some focus.

"These groups do not represent one racial or ethnic group, in the way you are purporting African-Americans should band together in one umbrella organization.  Each group has its agenda and puts that forward. Unfortunately, it is more difficult to find one agenda for an entire ethnic or racial group.  When we were being blatantly oppressed, it was easy to advocate for voter's rights, and the like, but where are we know? Half of us think that racism is dead, or are oblivious to the covert, and institutional racism surrounding us.  I think that we need to encourage more civic involvement overall, and can't expect the "government" to take care of us.  When was the last time the government really took care of anyone, Black, White, Purple?  IHMO, African-Americans need to return to their communities and work from a grassroots perspective.  That may be working at the Boys & Girls Club, or SAT tutoring."


but how can we do this enmasse, and with any sort of consistency, if there is not a vanguard pushing this agenda forward.  do we rely on women to teach black women, the gay guys to seek out gay guys, russell simmons to seek out the hip hop heads.  do we just do it ourselves? I keep hearing people say blacks are diverse.  no one said they weren't.  America is more diverse than blacks, but America has political institutions in place that ensure its continued survival and success.  are black people even more diverse than america?  why can america have the congress and address most of the groups in it's constituency, but blacks can't do something similar?  the senate isn't working for us, because our interest groups are not focused and are not strong enough to twist a senators arm..I propose we get that strentgth instead of just complaining about our powerlessness.  but apparently people would rather have all of nothing than share half of something... 



Helping your community shouldn't be an agenda that I have to push on people. You either care or you don't.  So, what does the inability to find people who care say about the state of African-American affairs?
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I will not allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for that is the great foundation of failure. ~Og Mandino

SweetEpiphany

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2007, 01:16:22 PM »

That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?



Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

So, I inherit the stereotypes, and the burden of being African-American.  In the same way, being Caucasian in America means that you sometimes have to face being called the descendant of a slave holder, even if  your ancestors weren't.  If I walked around being offended all day, I wouldnt' get too much done.  As I said before, perception is reality...and my life's path has been largely determined by others' perceptions of me, as has yours.  I guess you would rather people only think about you in generalities, rather than speak, or write of you in generalities. That doesn't change much IMO.
That's an interesting question, because the first time I saw your tar I thought that you were from the Caribbean.  Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing people of Caribbean descent, but often we look different from people of African descent or African Americans.  Damn that inbreeding.  ;)  :D

Maybe I am just overestimating how Black I look... :-[ :D
UVA Law 2010!

I will not allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for that is the great foundation of failure. ~Og Mandino

Stand under my Umbrella ella ella, aye!!

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2007, 01:17:50 PM »
"Helping your community shouldn't be an agenda that I have to push on people. You either care or you don't.  So, what does the inability to find people who care say about the state of African-American affairs?"

people care, but what do they do?  alot of people don't know.  and even if people do act, wouldn't it accomplish even more if therd was a movement behind it?  rosa parks cared, but nothing got done until there was an organized effort formed behind her.  this is getting tiring.  I mean, is it really that hard to see that there is strength in unity?  as opposed to individual scattered efforts?

even if gay blacks have different agenda that black women, can't we all agree our schools should be better?  this is what I'm talking about.  coming together on things to bring us all up.  I'm not talking about silencing anyone.

The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

pikey

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2007, 01:20:00 PM »

That, however, does not mean that all white people are directly culpable in present injustices.  Generalized comments that suggest as much is what I find offensive.  See where I'm going with this?



Yes, we all know that all white people didnt' do it. But part of choosing to live in these United States of America is recognizing that you inherit its history.  I was born in Trinidad & Tobago, and my entire family is from Guyana, South America. I am Indian, Portuguese, Scottish, & Black, but you better believe that when I walk down the street I am just another African-American to almost anyone who sees me.  Look at my tar, don't I look 100% Black?

So, I inherit the stereotypes, and the burden of being African-American.  In the same way, being Caucasian in America means that you sometimes have to face being called the descendant of a slave holder, even if  your ancestors weren't.  If I walked around being offended all day, I wouldnt' get too much done.  As I said before, perception is reality...and my life's path has been largely determined by others' perceptions of me, as has yours.  I guess you would rather people only think about you in generalities, rather than speak, or write of you in generalities. That doesn't change much IMO.
That's an interesting question, because the first time I saw your tar I thought that you were from the Caribbean.  Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing people of Caribbean descent, but often we look different from people of African descent or African Americans.  Damn that inbreeding.  ;)  :D

Maybe I am just overestimating how Black I look... :-[ :D

No you look Black.  There's just different 'flavors' of Black.
The noobs are so into themsleves you'd think they allready have offers at Tool, Tool, feminine hygiene product & Dumbass LLC

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SweetEpiphany

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2007, 01:22:27 PM »
"Helping your community shouldn't be an agenda that I have to push on people. You either care or you don't.  So, what does the inability to find people who care say about the state of African-American affairs?"

people care, but what do they do?  alot of people don't know.  and even if people do act, wouldn't it accomplish even more if therd was a movement behind it?  rosa parks cared, but nothing got done until there was an organized effort formed behind her.  this is getting tiring. 



Well, despite the frustration, the positive thing is that we are all on our way to, or in law school.  If we really want to effect change, a J.D. is a great place to start, especially if we are trying to break through the glass ceiling, and make the "man" listen. ;D

P.S. I think we need to lighten things up a little in here.  :)
UVA Law 2010!

I will not allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for that is the great foundation of failure. ~Og Mandino

pikey

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2007, 01:22:49 PM »
"Helping your community shouldn't be an agenda that I have to push on people. You either care or you don't.  So, what does the inability to find people who care say about the state of African-American affairs?"

people care, but what do they do?  alot of people don't know.  and even if people do act, wouldn't it accomplish even more if therd was a movement behind it?  rosa parks cared, but nothing got done until there was an organized effort formed behind her.  this is getting tiring.  



Once again, the argument has settled into various camps that believe different things and therefore won't agree.  Epiphany and I think that grassroots and community organisations are the most effective way to create change in the Black community.  You think that there should be a large, widespread movement.  Clearly we aren't going to agree...
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SweetEpiphany

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Re: Black Immigrants, An Invisible 'Model Minority'
« Reply #119 on: May 09, 2007, 01:24:23 PM »
That's an interesting question, because the first time I saw your tar I thought that you were from the Caribbean.  Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing people of Caribbean descent, but often we look different from people of African descent or African Americans.  Damn that inbreeding.  ;)  :D

Maybe I am just overestimating how Black I look... :-[ :D
[/quote]

No you look Black.  There's just different 'flavors' of Black.
[/quote]


Oooh. The flavors intrigue me.  I think I'm a Caribbean Mocha Twist.. :P
UVA Law 2010!

I will not allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for that is the great foundation of failure. ~Og Mandino