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Author Topic: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA  (Read 13412 times)

1LCorvo

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Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« on: March 18, 2007, 01:52:21 AM »
 
 Middle class african americans DON'T need AA programs. It does not make much sense to give a person an unfair advantage, when the resources are obtainable. It seems to beg the question. If one has the available resource to excel (academically), then it is rather unjust to give assistance to those who do not really need it. Nevertheless, it does not seem to follow that a person should receive help because of their race; apropos their skin color. Since it does not follow, it is not a legitimate argument to justify providing AA for all african americans. Those who deserve the advantage, are those who are poor (who live in impoverished areas)-regardless of race.

I suppose that race based AA is rather antiquated and injurious. My arguments aren't new, but I would like to hear some rebuttals from blacks, whom seem to benefit from AA (when they do not need it)...I make this claim because (presumably) middle class AA tend to go to law school at a higher rate than poorer AA. If it is your desire, correct me when I have erred.

BTW, I am an African American dude; born in the ghetto of Newark NJ. But, this certainly ought not vitiate my claims.
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tigerfly0110

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 02:09:21 AM »
I am not an Upper-Middle Class African American and I came from an impoverished community myself so I will cannot comment on your question about how Middle Class African Americans might feel.  However,you might want to consider that Middle Class Blacks are still equivalent to lower class Whites economically.  On average (according to the most recent sensus and what i've learned in most Sociology, AAS and History classes at Emory) middle class African Americans have about $3000 in income (money earned through working) and wealth (assets such as home, stocks, bonds etc.) while middle class Whites have about $40,000.  Institutional racism affects ALL minorities regardles of income and the historical barriers that Blacks have had to cross still exist.  Lastly, I wish people (not just you) would stop making Afirmative Action a Black issue.  White women have been and still are the major beneficiaries of Affirmative Action AND Affirmative Action DOES work for economically deprived people as well.  In case you hadn't read most of your applications the personal statements tend to ask people to describe any hardships they have overcome.  This information works in your favor as well.  In short, EVERYONE benefits from some form of Affirmative Action.  Its purpose was and is to create an equal playing field for all those applying to college.

jillibean

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 09:03:32 AM »
all blacks need AA-- they are still underrepresented in most professional careers especially black men and most black people are middle class- they don't have the contacts that old white guys have. I grew up in a black upper class family and it's just stupid to think that there shouldn't be AA because of your economic staus. Its based on race. When I am no longer the only black on the block or the only black at my school then maybe I will agree with you but until then....
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naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 09:21:03 AM »
I've never been too fond of African Americans in the upper (middle) class. There is something rather duplicitous about them, yet I cannot put my finger on it. 

:-\ I wonder what kind of world we'd have if people in real positions of power--teachers, professors, policemen, judges, managers, supervisors, storekeepers, insurance agents, salesmen, medical professionals, lawyers, politicians, etc.--felt the the same way.  What kind of a mess would we really be in if people had the  unmitigated discretion and authority to make decisions consistent with their disdain (or, as you put it, lack of "fondness") for a particular group?  Imagine the way such attitudes from cradle to grave would likely affect the life chances of people from the impacted group.  Imagine why there would be a need for some measure to ensure that your highly subjective (and perhaps baseless) lack of "fondness" doesn't get a free pass to rear its ugly head unrestrained and unchecked whenever it fancies you to do so.
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sharky

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 10:12:51 AM »
I can understand the claim that white women historically have benefited "the most" from AA, but is there anything to back up your claim that white women CONTINUE to benefit from AA at a higher rate than black men or black women?  Seems like a bold statement sans evidence, or an opinion submitted as fact.

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 01:12:21 PM »
I can understand the claim that white women historically have benefited "the most" from AA, but is there anything to back up your claim that white women CONTINUE to benefit from AA at a higher rate than black men or black women?  Seems like a bold statement sans evidence, or an opinion submitted as fact.


TITCQ

Middle class blacks/hispanics/whites/whoever, all have the same advantages -- educationally speaking. The traditional example of how the SAT was racially biased, was "if there is an analogy that asks me for a synonym for 'regatta,' how is some kid from a poor black neighborhood going to know what that is?"

Well, if you're black and middle class, you have about the same chance of your dad being a member of the yacht club as the white kid on your street.

Helping poor students to get out of a bad situation is at least a noble cause, but Michael Jordan's kid doesn't need an added advantage.
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1LCorvo

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 02:53:36 PM »
I've never been too fond of African Americans in the upper (middle) class. There is something rather duplicitous about them, yet I cannot put my finger on it. 

:-\ I wonder what kind of world we'd have if people in real positions of power--teachers, professors, policemen, judges, managers, supervisors, storekeepers, insurance agents, salesmen, medical professionals, lawyers, politicians, etc.--felt the the same way.  What kind of a mess would we really be in if people had the  unmitigated discretion and authority to make decisions consistent with their disdain (or, as you put it, lack of "fondness") for a particular group?  Imagine the way such attitudes from cradle to grave would likely affect the life chances of people from the impacted group.  Imagine why there would be a need for some measure to ensure that your highly subjective (and perhaps baseless) lack of "fondness" doesn't get a free pass to rear its ugly head unrestrained and unchecked whenever it fancies you to do so.


This is extraneous to the main discussion. However, even if I am not fond of a group's actions, it does not follow that I will deny them an opportunity of any sort. Moreover, it does not follow that legislation is needed to ensure that they'll receive these opportunities. For instance, I might despise Dennis Rodman's antics off the court, but when he gets on the court, it is an entirely different ball game.

Race based AA presumes that how whites treated blacks in the past will continue in the future. However, any student of David Hume will note there is a fallacy in that type of reasoning. One cannot project past regularities onto the future (neither deductive nor inductive reasoning ensures such a position). And, I reckon that many african americans (primarily those that benefit, apropos middle class blacks) will continue to use such logic (albeit fallacious logic).
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1LCorvo

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 03:03:32 PM »
all blacks need AA-- they are still underrepresented in most professional careers especially black men and most black people are middle class- they don't have the contacts that old white guys have. I grew up in a black upper class family and it's just stupid to think that there shouldn't be AA because of your economic staus. Its based on race. When I am no longer the only black on the block or the only black at my school then maybe I will agree with you but until then....

Midgets are also underrepresented, ought we to create legislation to ensure that they are represented. How about basketball players? Your reasoning is apparently flawed.
How you perform academically is ultimately tied to your available resources. If you have to money to afford a tutor, you purchase one. When does race become a factor? Are schools denying blacks the opportunity to learn? Perhaps in 1947, but not in 2007 (maybe in isolated events). However, middle class blacks do not suffer from the same economic obstacles that poor whites, asians, latinos, and blacks suffer from.

Moreover, I never argued that there should not be AA. That's a presumption on your part (also a straw-man fallacy). If AA is to exist, it must not be tied to race. All blacks do not need AA. Some blacks might need it, but not all. And, if they do need it, it is not because they are black. But, for other reasons like poverty.
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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 03:13:21 PM »
However, any student of David Hume ...

I was only at the University of Edinburgh for a semester, but I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I hear this guy's name mentioned. :-D


Midgets are also underrepresented, ought we to create legislation to ensure that they are represented. How about basketball players? Your reasoning is apparently flawed.
How you perform academically is ultimately tied to your available resources. If you have to money to afford a tutor, you purchase one. When does race become a factor? Are schools denying blacks the opportunity to learn? Perhaps in 1947, but not in 2007 (maybe in isolated events). However, middle class blacks do not suffer from the same economic obstacles that poor whites, asians, latinos, and blacks suffer from.

Moreover, I never argued that there should not be AA. That's a presumption on your part (also a straw-man fallacy). If AA is to exist, it must not be tied to race. All blacks do not need AA. Some blacks might need it, but not all. And, if they do need it, it is not because they are black. But, for other reasons like poverty.

I was going to reply to that one as well. As I said, Michael Jordan's kid doesn't need AA. He's rich no matter what. If he's an idiot and can't pass a class, he's going to be well-off. His dad went to college. He will go to college most likely. He can get tutors, go to an SAT class and a Prep School.

If you want to increase the number of black families in middle-class suburban and upper-class neighborhoods, you need to bring kids out of the lower-class inner-cities.

In fact, allowing AA to benefit rich or middle-class kids really only takes that opportunity away from a poor kid in the Bronx who needs it more.
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1LCorvo

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Re: Middle Class Blacks Do Not Need AA
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 03:26:17 PM »
However, any student of David Hume ...

I was only at the University of Edinburgh for a semester, but I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling every time I hear this guy's name mentioned. :-D


Midgets are also underrepresented, ought we to create legislation to ensure that they are represented. How about basketball players? Your reasoning is apparently flawed.
How you perform academically is ultimately tied to your available resources. If you have to money to afford a tutor, you purchase one. When does race become a factor? Are schools denying blacks the opportunity to learn? Perhaps in 1947, but not in 2007 (maybe in isolated events). However, middle class blacks do not suffer from the same economic obstacles that poor whites, asians, latinos, and blacks suffer from.

Moreover, I never argued that there should not be AA. That's a presumption on your part (also a straw-man fallacy). If AA is to exist, it must not be tied to race. All blacks do not need AA. Some blacks might need it, but not all. And, if they do need it, it is not because they are black. But, for other reasons like poverty.

I was going to reply to that one as well. As I said, Michael Jordan's kid doesn't need AA. He's rich no matter what. If he's an idiot and can't pass a class, he's going to be well-off. His dad went to college. He will go to college most likely. He can get tutors, go to an SAT class and a Prep School.

If you want to increase the number of black families in middle-class suburban and upper-class neighborhoods, you need to bring kids out of the lower-class inner-cities.

In fact, allowing AA to benefit rich or middle-class kids really only takes that opportunity away from a poor kid in the Bronx who needs it more.

Intuitively, those that benefit from something, will not want to let it go. In the process, they'll use anything (even bad reasoning) to justify why that something should remain the same. For instance, slave owners (and those who benefited) argued that the bible justify slavery. It is a natural thing to do. So, I sort of understand why middle class blacks tend to feverently defend AA. However, CL already noted, supporting how AA is currently practiced, may be a detrement to those who really need it.
With the number 1 pick in the NBA draft, the Portland Trailblazers select: Greg Oden!

(the Trailblazers have been blessed from God)