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Author Topic: Why should I go to an American school?  (Read 15578 times)

thestradgirl

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2007, 08:52:26 AM »
So confused about this. Why does the US seem a more exciting place to study and practice the law?

need more input from Canadians who have chosen for and against the top schools in the US. Where are all of you?

part of it is illusion and part of it is true.
it's a way to get away from the familiar without going too far away or having to learn a whole new language. o.k., there is more going on in the u.s.a. also, the idea of working in a place like NYC definitely has its allure. i think i am staying in canada because of these very reasons, but only because i feel that they aren't for me at this point in my life.

yes, where are you people?
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ButImAGilmore

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 05:04:55 PM »
I guess I'm one of those people. I didn't even apply to Canadian schools (despite UofT's begging letter). Basically I am going to the US for school because I know without a doubt that I want to practice there afterward. There just aren't similar opportunities for art law or entertainment law in Canada. And frankly, no school in Canada has the entertainment industry connections that USC has! (which is why I feel ever so lucky to have gotten in there, and sometimes wonder why I bothered applying to places like Duke/UVA/Michigan). I know that UofT and McGill send some students south of the border, but the stats were not convincing enough to make me stay up here for school.

What it all boils down to is that next year, while you all freeze in piles of snow, I will be WARM  ;D
But seriously, if you know you only want to practice in the US, consider a US school. If you think you would prefer to stay in Canada, why bother with the extra cost? The only schools that are potentially worth it are Harvard and Yale.

Ps. You are not qualified to work in California with a Canadian JD(uoft)or LLB. You have to pass the bar of another state (MA or NY) first (or do an LLM in the US), which would likely mean working in that state for awhile.
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treppenwitz

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 05:45:25 PM »
Just want to point out that it is not always more expensive to go to the States: schools in the U.S. tend to be much more generous with their merit based aid.

fall07

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2007, 07:23:56 PM »
I also have options in both areas, but going down to the states is something I've always wanted to do.  As beautiful and comforting as Canada (Toronto) is, the climate/opportunity is simply greater down there.  Sometimes the familiar is just too familiar, if you're not against living down there, and would like to pursue anew...well then, it could make for quite the experience and long-term happiness.  Granted, at the crux of the matter now apprehension underscores what I am feeling...nevertheless, some people just have a hard time staying in one place their whole life.  Of course, that's not to say that you're stuck anywhere no matter where you go, but if you ultimately do want to be down there, then obviously starting there has its advantages.  However, realistically, you will be paying lots more, probably, for me and I think most others, there will be hefty loans, not to mention that it will take years and lots of resources to establish a level of residency and comfort that you most likely enjoy now up here.  Simply going to school down there then returning, if that is your plan, would be quite intensive and not the most efficient, although minds do change.  Bottom line is that it would be difficult to argue against the notion that certain American locations offer more opportunity in the long-term, and if you would like to live in area x, and can handle the short term costs associated with such a move...well then, giddy up!

Ultimately though it is a tough decision, and I am quite confused at this point now that I actually have options in Cali, Florida, and Toronto.  So much to consider...so much to blabber on about.   :-\

THADEMON

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2007, 02:33:19 PM »
Yea I think that it comes down to where you want to practice...

I am from Victoria, Canada and I am going to University of San Diego to study law. I think it keeps my doors more open to practicing in California or BC, whichever i end up choosing, than if I were to go to UBC or U of T or something, where i would be screwed for working in Cali..... I wish I woulda been able to go to USC too, but they didnt give me much $$$... USD hooked me up and I LOVE San Diego, so its a wicked choice for me. Altho, if i wasnt getting it paid for, it would cost 38 grand US for one year tuition, YIKES

Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2007, 02:52:51 PM »
Yea I think that it comes down to where you want to practice...

I am from Victoria, Canada and I am going to University of San Diego to study law. I think it keeps my doors more open to practicing in California or BC, whichever i end up choosing, than if I were to go to UBC or U of T or something, where i would be screwed for working in Cali..... I wish I woulda been able to go to USC too, but they didnt give me much $$$... USD hooked me up and I LOVE San Diego, so its a wicked choice for me. Altho, if i wasnt getting it paid for, it would cost 38 grand US for one year tuition, YIKES

I disagree that going to an American school leaves open more doors.  If you want to come practice in BC after your degree, you would have to spend another year at a Canadian school and a year articling.  The top 25% of the U of T and McGill class gets recruited by top NY firms, and Canadian law grads can write the bar in NY, MA, and, once they are admitted to another jurisdiction, in California.  I myself am leaning towards law school in the States, but the flexibility of the Canadian degree is certainly an advantage. 

rpk8785

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2007, 04:54:43 PM »
Wrong on both counts - the bar passage rate in NY for non-ABA JD holders is 36%, and the opportunities for advancement with a Canadian degree in the American market are extremely limited - basically you can get in, maybe, but you're certainly not going to move up quickly, if at all.  If flexibility is your top criterion for choosing, then the US wins hands down.  Not to say that there aren't other good reasons for staying in Canada for a lot of people, though.

rizz

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2007, 05:23:12 PM »
If you want to practice in Canada go to a canadian school. If you want to practice in the U.S. go to an american school. Comparing them on "flexibility" is ridiculous. You can't just walk into canada with a JD and take the bar exam. It doesn't work like that. You have to do at least a year at a canadian school anyway and a year of articling. Not too mention the host of immigration issues you have to go through if you want to spend any amount of time in either country.

I don't know about those bar passage numbers - for one thing UofT is the only school in canada that gives a JD and not an LLB. So I would assume the numbers are based mostly on American non-ABA schools. Anyway you are probably right about advancement in new york but that seems to be changing. There has been a huge increase in canadian students going to new york and with that increased presence I wouldn't doubt there will be more canadian educated partners in new york.

Whatever the case its freaking retarded to rank the degrees on "flexibility" they both have massive restrictions why anybody would go to school in a different jurisdiction than where they want to make a career i have no idea.

Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2007, 07:38:54 PM »
Wrong on both counts - the bar passage rate in NY for non-ABA JD holders is 36%, and the opportunities for advancement with a Canadian degree in the American market are extremely limited - basically you can get in, maybe, but you're certainly not going to move up quickly, if at all.  If flexibility is your top criterion for choosing, then the US wins hands down.  Not to say that there aren't other good reasons for staying in Canada for a lot of people, though.

By flexibility, I'm talking about working in either jurisdiction.  It is undeniable that a Canadian llb gives you more immediate options in the US, than a US JD gives you in Canada, simply because of the policies of the various provincial bar associations.  A person cannot graduate from USD and write the bar in a Canadian province.  McGill, U of T, and Osgoode are all recruited by V100 US firms, and send 30 students between them to NYC firms.  I don't know what you're talking about when you say "moving up", because no one "moves up" at these firms until they make partner.  I don't see why firms like Cravath and SullCrom and Skadden would take a couple of Mcgill and U of T students every year, and actively recruit on campus, if it was impossible for them to "move up."

rpk8785

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Re: Why should I go to an American school?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2007, 12:23:59 PM »
Wrong on both counts - the bar passage rate in NY for non-ABA JD holders is 36%, and the opportunities for advancement with a Canadian degree in the American market are extremely limited - basically you can get in, maybe, but you're certainly not going to move up quickly, if at all.  If flexibility is your top criterion for choosing, then the US wins hands down.  Not to say that there aren't other good reasons for staying in Canada for a lot of people, though.

By flexibility, I'm talking about working in either jurisdiction.  It is undeniable that a Canadian llb gives you more immediate options in the US, than a US JD gives you in Canada, simply because of the policies of the various provincial bar associations.  A person cannot graduate from USD and write the bar in a Canadian province.  McGill, U of T, and Osgoode are all recruited by V100 US firms, and send 30 students between them to NYC firms.  I don't know what you're talking about when you say "moving up", because no one "moves up" at these firms until they make partner.  I don't see why firms like Cravath and SullCrom and Skadden would take a couple of Mcgill and U of T students every year, and actively recruit on campus, if it was impossible for them to "move up."

Nobody's saying it's impossible, it's just extremely difficult because you won't have the same connections as others within the markets where you practice.  Let's remember that the ONLY TWO jurisdictions that accept Canadian degrees as equivalent for the purposes of writing the bar are NY and MA - that's it.  If you want to go to California (for example), you would have to first pass the bar in either one of NY or MA (again, difficult, given the 36% bar passage rate for non-ABA approved degree holders, and yes, that includes everybody who takes it who does not have an ABA JD including Canadians and including U of T students), and then move to go through the same process in the other jurisdiction.  Again, you would still face the same barriers given the fact that you wouldn't have the same connections - it would be the same for a US lawyer coming to practice in Canada.  Connections mean a lot in the legal world.

While it might be slightly easier to go with a Canadian degree to the US, the US JD (especially top-ranked) is more recognized internationally and will (with some work) get you a decent job in Canada.

Come on, 30 students between the three schools in NYC, and you say that's evidence of Canadians moving up in the US market??? That's laughable - there are literally hundreds of students that go to NYC for their first jobs as associates every year, merely 30 students between three of the top Canadian schools does not mean that you will have huge opportunities to move up, believe me.  Additionally, that figure (if true), only further goes to show that while some firms may recruit in Canada, lots of people don't want to go to the US and the firms won't go as deep into the classes.

I agree, though, if you want to practice in the US for any time at all, study in the US, and vice-versa if you want to practice in Canada. . .