Can't Get In!!!!

[Phildoski]

So far, I have yet to get in anywhere! Even at schools where my GPA/LSAT was higher than their average. So far, the only positives I've recieved are waitlist at Georgetown. I was rejected at Baylor, Texas Tech, U of Texas, U of Virginia, Catholic University, and Northeastern.

I'm 32, white male, veteran with a 3.81 GPA, 152 LSAT. I've worked 50 hrs/week all through undergrad in a career. I was also involved in:

University of North Texas, Clovis C. Morrisson Award  Pre-Law Student of the Year, 2002-2003
President and Dean’s list, all semesters.
Pi Sigma Alpha Political Science Honor Society
Phi Theta Kappa Honor Society
American Moot Court Association Outstanding Written Brief, 2003
Nominated for Political Science Student of the Year 2003-2004 (Award Pending)

Texas Undergraduate Moot Court Association (TUMCA):
Finalist Team, Texas Tech Law School Tournament 2003
Fifth Speaker, Texas Tech Law School Tournament 2003
Finalist Team, Baylor Law School Tournament, 2003
Top Speaker, Baylor Law School Tournament, 2003
Semi-Finalist Team, Texas Wesleyan Law School Tournament, 2003
First Place, Hardin Simmons Tournament, 2002
Quarter Finalist, Baylor University 2004
Tenth Overall Speaker, 2002-2003

Activities:
Study Abroad at The International Criminal Court for the Former Yugoslavia, The Hague, Netherlands

Phi Alpha Delta, Secretary 2002-2003; Member 2002-2004
UNT Moot Court Captain, 2002-2004;
UNT Moot Court, 2002-2004
Designed websites for UNT Moot Court, Phi Alpha Delta Pre-Law Fraternity, and Texas Undergraduate Moot Court Association.

Now, I had a criminal record when I was 15, and a dismissed theft by check under $50.00.

I would have thought that my activities since then would count for something. I don't know why I'm not getting in anywhere, anybody have any ideas?

[lawstudent2004]

WOW you were pretty busy.  I don't understand why you were rejected from all those schools.  I can understand Baylor and U of T with your LSAT but all the activities should have improved your chances.  I really don't understand why Texas Tech rejected you?

[beantownbear]

I'm new to the board...just wanted to weigh in.

From your academic and extracurricular activities, it's clear that you are serious about pursuing a career in law.  Don't lose hope--waitlist at Georgetown IS positive!  From what I've read, this has been an extremely competitive year, admissions-wise.  Have you considered retaking the LSAT?  I know that waiting another year to attend law school is a difficult prospect, but if you could raise your LSAT even 3 or 4 points,I think your chances of admission at those schools would skyrocket.  (Being from Boston, I can't comment on the Southern schools, but I believe that a slightly higher LSAT would make you a probable acceptance at Northeastern.) 

Keep your chin up--I think you will make a great law student and I will keep my fingers crossed for Georgetown! 

[beantownbear]

One more thing...It may be that, with your extensive honors, the schools you have applied to are under the impression that you wouldn't choose them if they accepted you, so they figure it is better to reject you and hold a place for a student they think WILL want to attend!! Strange, but true...If you haven't already, be sure to write a letter to Georgetown indicating that you are still very interested  in attending-- very often, these letters can push an applicant into the "accept" pile.

[camelbx]

I disagree with earlier posters. a 152 LSAT is not terribly high except for Texas Tech whose 25/75% LSAT numbers are 150/157. UT is something like 160/165. etc.

You have a great GPA (wish I had it) but you're LSAT holds you back from those schools. You could retake and if you could get an average of upper 150s lower 160s you'd be competitive for a lot more of those schools. The alternative is to apply to easier schools.. I'm from Texas and I have the opposite problem (2.95/164 split numbers the other way).

A bunch of schools would probably give you $$$ but they're ranked lower. U. of Ark isnt all bad, STCL isn't bad. BTW what schools are you still waiting on?

So far I'm out at U of Houston/UT and In at Texas Tech and Arkansas.

[dsds3581]

Yeah, I was also wondering what other schools you applied to. I also agree that many of the schools you applied to are out of your league, so I do understand about half of those decisions (particularly UVA, UTA and Baylor...). I'm kind of surprised Georgetown waitlisted you, not rejected you...hmmm, but it looks to me, from lawschoolnumbers.com like GTown might be going on a "waitlist" spree this year. So the fact that they waitlisted you IS kind of good, maybe.

I think you might want to consider re-taking the LSAT/re-applying in the fall, as well. But what you might want to do, just to make sure you don't get in anywhere this year (if these are the only schools you applied to), is to stay in touch with Georgetown and ride them, letting them know you really want to attend! Maybe even visit and be sure to let the admissions officers know you did. That way, when they start taking people off the waitlist and accepting some, they will remember you and think of you as possibly one of the first people to contact! Don't sit back and wait. If Georgetown still doesn't accept you and that was your only chance, then you will know to re-take/re-apply. If they accept you, that won't be necessary! 

[Phildoski]

Thanks to everyone who replied! This is nice to have a forum of folks going through the same anxiety.

Yeah, I konw my LSAT is a little low, but I figured that the other things would make up for it. Anyway, my pending schools are: Franklin Pierce, Suffolk, Boston College, William and Mary, American University, George Mason, University of Denver, and St. Mary's, SMU, Valipariso.

I was really baffled at Tech, because the Dean of Admissions practically accepted me at the tournament that we had there. When I talked to him after my rejection, he said that the criminal involvement "raised red flags". So, I'm shelling out the 1000 bucks for the expungement. Baylor also eluded that they wanted me to attend there at a tournament as well, regardless of LSAT score. That's why I'm so confused...

I do agree though, another 5 or 10 points could only help.

If I do have to sit out a year, the worst that can happen is I raise my LSAT score and pay off some more debts. It really sucks though.

[karenw911]

First off, I would call into question the dean of admissions that placed such a high priority on your misdoings as a 15 year old, over 15 years ago. That makes no sense, whatsoever, and is honestly not logical. If you disclosed that information, there is no reason that the incident should be held against you.

Have you checked www.lawschoolnumbers.com to get some idea of this year's acceptance numbers from anyone who would've reported for those schools?

You do have substantial 'extracurricular' activities, but I'm just wondering. Did you list all of your tournament places on your applications as well? If so, I'm afraid you may have some overkill here.  I guess it would be helpful to know which of the activities specifically you listed on your apps.

Can I ask what you discussed in your personal statement?

...and just a petty techinical suggestion here.  Check your apps for anyway that you may have spelled Valparaiso. Being from the area and an applicant there, it may rub the wrong way.

Karen W.

[Phildoski]

Hi Karen, thanks for responding.

To answer some of your questions, yes, I just cut and pasted from my resume, so they got it all; but I only listed it once.

Secondly, I caught the mispelling after I posted, but no, I didn't mispell it on my personal statement.

My personal statement I worked on for about 8 months, and basically tells them the story of a young troubled kid, who turned out to be a determined individual who went from a troubled past to a successful professional and educational career; and someone who wants to study law. I gave credit where credit was due, and emphasized dedication, desire etc etc. I also used a nautical theme throughout to parallel my experience in the submarine service.

I had my mom's husband check it over, he used to be on the admissions committee for Yale, and he loved it.

I didn't use this on every one, because some schools ask for specific things. I can mail you a copy of it if you'd like...

Thanks for all of your suggestions, cause I am VERY baffled!

[drewpac]

I've come to realize that LS admissions is almost entirely a numbers game.  I think if you combine PS, LOR, EC it probably only equates to about 5% importance.  It can be the difference btw two people with nearly identical numbers but I don't think it "improves" your numbers.  For instance a 3.4, 158 doesn't become a 3.6, 161 because of a great PS, LOR, or EC.  It is what it is. 

Your best bet is to start studying for the LSAT and don't take it until you're scoring in the mid-160's.  I know that's easier said than done but it's your only hope of attending most of the schools you listed.  If you either don't want to put yourself through that or can't get the score up, then you should apply to schools where your numbers are above their 75%'s next year.  Good luck!! I hope you get off that GULC waitlist!!!