Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?  (Read 16522 times)

remiz22

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2007, 07:25:11 AM »
If you pay attention (and I assume you do), you know that I don't debate AA.

If paying attention means knowing the position of one poster on some random issue, then you've got me.

As for debating AA, that's exactly the problem. The less determined realize that they'd spend 75% of a discussion proving that they aren't racists.

Case more or less in point:
http://www.justicetalking.org/viewprogram.asp?progID=398
mms://128.91.58.209/JusticeTalking/WMA/fullshow/030211_affirmativeaction.wma

That is really true. I notice that anyone who speaks critically of AA on this board is either called a racist or attacked personally (usually by the same few posters).

Miss P

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21337
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2007, 09:07:11 AM »
Lest we forget. 

well, in your case, you actually were and quite severely...

Yes.  And amazingly enough, you never (or seldom) whined about it before.  Hank, you are truly the exception to the rule, and (while I still don't like how you were treated -- or the terrible things you said last February) I think it's more because of your persona and off-topic behavior that you were singled out for this kind of assault/ridicule.

ETA:

That is really true. I notice that anyone who speaks critically of AA on this board is either called a racist or attacked personally (usually by the same few posters).

This just isn't so.  Opposition to affirmative action is not, in itself, racist, and I think very few people on my side of the debate will level an accusation of racism absent a particular argument (such as the one above that because some black admits have lower LSAT scores than the admitted students as a whole that they are being admitted "solely on the basis of race" and not whatever other qualifications they presented in their applications) that seems to denigrate black applicants.  Several people who are skeptical of AA (Goosenesque comes to mind) seem to have escaped any such accusations.

In any case, I never think it's particularly productive to call people racist, even if they probably are.  For one, unless the accused is actually anti-racist, s/he will not take it as cause to reevaluate her argument but instead will use it to fan the flames of his/her rhetorical persecution.  It's a frustrating distraction.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

Miss P

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21337
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2007, 09:32:12 AM »
I don't know why we're still acting as if the OP's question is sincere, but it seems to be an obvious combination of three factors: (1) personal preference, the same as with a number of students of all races who do not post their scores; (2) desire to avoid harassment of the sort that Jeb240, JohnGalt, AnnabelLee and others have received through the years; and (c) concern that the lower numbers of black students on LSN and in the applicant pool in general make their profiles identifiable to admissions committees and others.  Let's put it to rest.  This isn't why he was here.  He was here because he wanted to shame black applicants for frequently underperforming on the LSAT.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

LegalMatters

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2007, 02:26:04 PM »
My comments were based on facts and a psychological theory that I put forth. I'm unappologetic in admitting that it is a broad generalization about the affects these policies might have on the psychology of black applicants.

You mean effects. Affect is a verb and effect is a noun, in this instance.
 
[quote}I'm not concerned about making you feel one way or another about the issue, but would be interested in seeing you be the devils advocate. Explain to me why black applicats would not feel embarassed posting subpar LSAT scores and why current policies would not influence society as a whole to assume that blacks were admitted and hired for being black. Prove to me that there is another explanation for so many blacks not posting their LSAT scores. Of course many blacks get high scores and are admitted on merit, but entertain me with your thoughts on the others that are admitted solely based on race. 
[/quote]

You'd better review your social science research notes: You have the phrase the questions so they don't bias the sample, unless that's effect you're looking for. Are you trying to evoke an angry reaction for your data collection? The why is irrelevant here. The burden of proof is on you to show black applicants don't post their LSAT scores because of embarassment.

With someone like you lurking, I would definitely not post my LSAT.

Besides, LSAT is overrated. You'd be amazed at the practicing attorneys out there who had low LSAT scores.

obamacon

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3156
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2007, 02:35:28 PM »
Editing of this nature is lame.

What's an edit or two between best buddies?

Kittyl30

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1781
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2007, 12:48:56 AM »
i know if i was black and had a 163 and a 4.0 and got into YHS i wouldnt post my stats. is this really a serious question? look at how all the LSNers just ripped out on so many applicants last cycle on LSD for getting into t14 with mid 160 LSATS posting crude commetns such as "congrats on your race..i mean acceptance."  its sickening.  I would never want to fact that type of B.S.

segundo said somewhere "how are blacks that DONT post their scores not discriminated against?" and to that I say im sure they still are. but they dont have to directly deal with other applicants ridiculously rude comments about how unfair it was they got into these better schools. b/c if you list YHS and dont put ur LSAT/GPA its left up to the imagination that you might have gotten a 174/4.0 so then they have no right to rag on you.  (granted, if you had those stats you most likely WOULD list them, its still a possibility)

thats my .02
she says she's tired of life
everybody's tired of something..

naturallybeyoutiful

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
  • Everything is everything
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2007, 08:30:13 AM »
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments.  I would suspect this to be true even moreso as the admissions cycle comes to a close.  The reason I gave the first response to the OP that I did was precisely because I questioned the motivation for his inquiry. 

There are several reasons why a black applicant would not post his/her LSAT scores, and the most obvious one that comes to my mind has been noted above.  There are also legitimate privacy concerns, particularly given the fact that the black applicant pool is a smaller subset of each annual admissions cycle.   Personally speaking - I am not posting my own GPA or LSAT for the same reason that I am not posting my real name, location, or other personal information.  Any poster who uses the omission of LSAT and GPA to infer sub-par performance in either would be making a gross error in judgment.  Then again, that same person is usually only looking to corroborate the assumption that he has already made about me after knowing nothing more than the color of my skin.  If these are the conditions of the game, I choose not to play.  I simply do not have time, energy, desire, or obligation to validate my decision to pursue law school or justify my admission to selective schools.  I rather choose to spend the time engaged in activities and discussions that will actually be of use to me in the fall.

On another note -- I generally try to stay out of all AA threads because of the condescending and/or derogatory tone they seem to take towards black applicants.  Particularly, I take issue with assumptions that people are admitted "just because of their race."  In a country wholly built on a racial caste system, I find it hard to believe that any person residing in this nation -- white or black -- is not living with some number of conditions that, when reduced to simplest form, cannot be attributed to "just because of your race."  It's hard for me to fathom a justification for a nation allowing race to be taken into consideration in every other sphere, every single day, and seemingly in every single way -- except when applying to law school.  Thus, I would be more inclined to enter AA debates so long as posters on both sides realize that the knife cuts both ways.  When anti-AA posters are just as skillful at forming cogent arguments in opposition to (and with response to) all forms of historic and contemporary white privilege as they are with railing against AA, I think the debate would be a worthy one. 

In the meantime -- I am reading Booker T. Washington's Up From Slavery for the first time, and it is one of the most eye-opening, insightful, and well-written pieces of literature that I have ever come across.  I have only had time to read it on the rush-hour train for the past week, but I am already halfway finished.   This book would be of particular interest to people of all races/classes on both sides of the AA debate, as I believe it would give everyone a richer picture of the role that race plays (and, in fact, has always played) in shaping the opportunity structure in this country.
Harvard Law: What, like it's hard?

Miss P

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21337
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2007, 09:23:31 AM »
Good post, Nat.

For those who are interested, you can read Up From Slavery for free online here.  I'm more of a Du Bois gal myself, of course, but Up From Slavery should be a part of every American child's education.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

Kirk Lazarus

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
  • I'm a lead farmer, mofo
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2007, 11:15:42 AM »
Just my $0.02...

Many (and dare I say, most) black law school applicants in this country, irrespective of whether they score a 175 or a 157 on the LSAT, would still inevitably find themselves waging an uphill battle in the fight against some other applicants' insecurities and disappointments. I would suspect this to be true even moreso as the admissions cycle comes to a close.  The reason I gave the first response to the OP that I did was precisely because I questioned the motivation for his inquiry. 

There are several reasons why a black applicant would not post his/her LSAT scores, and the most obvious one that comes to my mind has been noted above.  There are also legitimate privacy concerns, particularly given the fact that the black applicant pool is a smaller subset of each annual admissions cycle.   Personally speaking - I am not posting my own GPA or LSAT for the same reason that I am not posting my real name, location, or other personal information.  Any poster who uses the omission of LSAT and GPA to infer sub-par performance in either would be making a gross error in judgment.  Then again, that same person is usually only looking to corroborate the assumption that he has already made about me after knowing nothing more than the color of my skin.  If these are the conditions of the game, I choose not to play.  I simply do not have time, energy, desire, or obligation to validate my decision to pursue law school or justify my admission to selective schools.  I rather choose to spend the time engaged in activities and discussions that will actually be of use to me in the fall.

On another note -- I generally try to stay out of all AA threads because of the condescending and/or derogatory tone they seem to take towards black applicants.  Particularly, I take issue with assumptions that people are admitted "just because of their race."  In a country wholly built on a racial caste system, I find it hard to believe that any person residing in this nation -- white or black -- is not living with some number of conditions that, when reduced to simplest form, cannot be attributed to "just because of your race."  It's hard for me to fathom a justification for a nation allowing race to be taken into consideration in every other sphere, every single day, and seemingly in every single way -- except when applying to law school.  Thus, I would be more inclined to enter AA debates so long as posters on both sides realize that the knife cuts both ways.  When anti-AA posters are just as skillful at forming cogent arguments in opposition to (and with response to) all forms of historic and contemporary white privilege as they are with railing against AA, I think the debate would be a worthy one. 

In the meantime -- I am reading Booker T. Washington's Up From Slavery for the first time, and it is one of the most eye-opening, insightful, and well-written pieces of literature that I have ever come across.  I have only had time to read it on the rush-hour train for the past week, but I am already halfway finished.   This book would be of particular interest to people of all races/classes on both sides of the AA debate, as I believe it would give everyone a richer picture of the role that race plays (and, in fact, has always played) in shaping the opportunity structure in this country.

Excellent post, but the bolded really is the answer to the question at hand.
YLS c/o 2009

t...

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2380
    • View Profile
Re: Why do so many black applicants not post their LSAT?
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2007, 12:02:31 PM »
I always just figured that the original question answered itself.

If you have to ask a question like this, well, there's your answer.
Quote
Cady on October 16, 2007, 10:41:52 PM

i rhink tyi'm inejying my fudgcicle too much

Quote
Huey on February 07, 2007, 11:15:32 PM

I went to a party in an apartment in a silo once.