Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)  (Read 5286 times)

cooley3L

  • Guest
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 12:11:29 PM »
All I know is it seems to be #1 thing most Cooley grads do, and tend to do ok at it.

I don't think any work before getting paid. That solves that issue right there. (unless a Tort attorney or other contingent based recovery)

Firms need new lawyers, so it is good that people are willing to work for them. For me, the whole point of getting higher education was to be my own boss. If I wanted to work for someone else I would have gone for an MBA or a PhD in HR.

SoCalLawGuy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 03:14:10 AM »
Well, with the job market these days (I'm talking any domain, not only law) it's likely that you get in debt to pay for your school and end up with no job. It's bad but, if you can still look at the glass half full I'd say this should make you struggle harder.

Nathaniel

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • My heavy metal band's Myspace site
    • Email
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2012, 05:43:15 PM »
I went to the University of Southern California law school in 2007 and now I can make big money.

1,$$$,$$$,$$$
The University of Maine '07
USC Law Dropout '07

Julie Fern

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 27205
  • tea baggers, unite! screw u.s.a.!
    • View Profile
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 07:54:37 AM »
my, that is lot money.  want contribute julie foundation?

kenpostudent

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
    • MSN Messenger - kenpostudent@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2012, 01:32:16 PM »
they speak about these things:

- how every school not in the first tier gets you no job at all

- every school besides T1 leaves you unemployable and stuck taking temporary document review jobs for 35-45k/year in conditions similiar to a sweatshop - or doing insurance defense which to them is dispicable

- how people have no money after being over 100k in debt from what they think is a useless school

I went to a second tier school and got a job at a local law firm in Las Vegas.  I'll make six figures this year.  I think my class had about a 90% employment rate at graduation.  Although, not everyone had full time work.  I would imagine the full time figure would be around 75%.  I suppose that it depends on where you intend to practice.  You can make a decent living in law outside of big firms, but that depends on your geographic area.  For instance, if I were to move back to CA, I would be looking at 45% unemployment for new lawyers. I probably would struggle to find a position.  In Nevada, the bar is pretty tough.  He have a passage rate in the mid 60% range.  So, that keeps the populations of lawyers fairly small. The market is decent here.  I don't know anyone with a license that cannot find work.  However, unlicensed recent grads have to work harder to find jobs as law clerks, but those jobs are available for those willing to hustle.  Ultimately, the practice of law is what you make of it.  If you are a good entrepreneur, you can develop a vibrant practice.  Most law school grads, however, are looking for a job where their bosses hand them work.  To succeed in this economy, you have to find work and bring in business.  This means you have to network and creatively market yourself.

C4rd0z0Attack!

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2012, 10:09:36 AM »
Yes, it is that bad. I'm seeing inexperienced law grads competing with experienced attorneys for entry-level (no jd/licensure reqs) part-time positions.  And who gets hired? It's the girl with a high-school education, because you know an attorney is going to be bitter filing papers and answering phones for $10/hr.

It sucks, but that's the reality. You've either got to excel at school and get yourself placed somewhere, or God has to favor you in some other way.

Maintain FL 350

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 550
    • View Profile
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2012, 12:16:21 PM »
I'm seeing inexperienced law grads competing with experienced attorneys for entry-level (no jd/licensure reqs) part-time positions.  And who gets hired? It's the girl with a high-school education, because you know an attorney is going to be bitter filing papers and answering phones for $10/hr.

The market is bad, but let's not get carried away. I live and work in LA, one of the worst legal markets for new grads. I have never  heard of an "experienced attorney" competing for a $10/hr job with high school grads. I assume that you're in NY, and perhaps the market there is significantly worse.

Frankly, an experienced attorney who is competing for a $10/hr job has problems that go far beyond the economy. An experienced attorney should be able to go solo and make more than $10/hr.

What I do see are a lot of new grads with very little experience competing for entry level associate positions, deputy DA/PD, etc. , against attorneys who have 2-3 years experience. Many of the new grads think that their grades and pedigree should land them the job, but fail to understand that small firms and govt offices don't have the money train someone. At non-biglaw/non-federal jobs, applicable experience trumps just about everything else. I would encourage every law student to worry less about grades and to focus on gaining experience and networking. It will help you far more than being able to say "I got an A in civpro."

One quick example: my friend went to law school part-time at a T4 and worked in a small family law office during the day. By the time she graduated she had four years of experience doing everything from interviewing clients, to making appearances, to writing motions. On top of that, she hustled like crazy and made tons of connections. She had job offers at graduation, before passing the bar. She found a niche, focused on gaining real experience, and it paid off. She was probably in a better position than a UCLA grad with better  grades and one internship under their belt.   

It's very difficult straight out of law school for most new lawyers, but it does get better after a couple of years. I truly believe that many law students could reduce their disappointment by being a little more realistic about where they're likely to get employed (small firms, doing non-glamorous work like DUIs and divorces), and gaining real experience (not just research-based summer associate positions).

aglittman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2012, 10:49:15 PM »
Applying to law school today would be incredibly dumb.  I was very fortunate to have my law school education financed by my father, but even though I went to a Tier-1 school, and am barred, I haven't been able to find any jobs to even apply to.  Earlier this year, I interned (yes, interned) for a federal judge.  I put in about 60 hours a week, and wrote four opinions, but it didn't lead to anything.  I really don't know what to do, am very depressed, and wish everyday that I didn't go to law school.  If you have any constructive suggestions for me, I would be most grateful.  Thanks

livinglegend

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
    • legalmatch
Re: Is the legal job market really that bad (jdjive)
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2012, 11:28:43 PM »
Well there are quite a few jobs out there I have found for my friends if you know where to look. Here are some places I know that are very actively trying to hire recently law barred lawyers.

http://www.westcoast-atty.com/ 

http://www.lflm.com/careers.htm

and if you can Handle Alaska my friend was getting called day and night to come work here and he went to a Tier 4 school. I think they have a huge need for judicial clerks and it pays 70k. 

For more information, visit http://www.state.ak.us/courts/recruit.htm and select “Information for Prospective Law Clerks.” They are very eager to fill Bethel Alaska and are actively hiring clerks.

Another resource to find entry level jobs is the BYU intercollegiate Job Bank it has basically every law school's career service website on it and there are thousands of jobs to apply for. Below is the username and password.

Username: Jobfind
Password: Fall2012

From reading your post it sounds like you are one of the recent graduates that is not valuing themselves enough. Never and I mean never work for free after you have passed the bar unless you are doing pro-bono work and have a paying career.  If you fall for the work 60 hours a week for free and do not have anytime to apply for jobs etc you are shooting yourself in the shoot. I personally have a ton of errands you could do for free and I will give you a glowing letter of recommendation, but I would not take your application seriously for a real attorney job. If your an attorney you need to bill and make money if your working for free that doesn't show lot of business sense.

I know plenty of grads working for free, but they would all be much better served spending 8 hours a day drafting detailed cover letters and scouring the intercollegiate job bank for positions. I graduated and passed the bar without people flocking to me, but after a few months of searching I was offered several paying attorney positions. I personally turned down numerous unpaid internships when I passed the bar and I truly thought about taking them, but am very glad I did not let something like that take time away from my job search.

Again I know how depressing and awful it can be to look for a job, but keep going you have a long legal career ahead of you. Good luck.