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Author Topic: Black LSAT statistics  (Read 16580 times)

pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2007, 03:19:50 PM »
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The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

The term African American is used as a racial category, not a national one.  I agree that statistical forms should use Black or even Black/African American to be more correct, but if they don't it is completely stupid for someone with 2 Black parents and 4 Black grandparents to check Other.  I'm not Other, I'm Black.  If they happen to put African-American, then that's what I will always check.  Deal with it.  There is no international category because they're not trying to record nationality.  They're trying to record 'race' (whatever that means) and for that I can only be Black, African American, Negro or Colored.  Whatever you call it, that's what I am.
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lsn

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2007, 03:24:04 PM »
only a black person can be so gangsta' with a post.  :P
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pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2007, 03:55:26 PM »
only a black person can be so gangsta' with a post.  :P

I just don't like it when people try and tell me what to do when their advice is ignant.  That's all.  0:)
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2007, 04:26:29 PM »
I think there should be a foreign born black catagory, but they don't have one.  I think it has something to do with there being so few american born blacks having numbers that qualify them for ls.  I think schools would rather just count any black person as afro am so as to increase their chances of getting blacks over their 25th, median, and 75th on the LSAT, and help their numbers as well as be able to report they are 10% afro am.  I feel a certain way about this, but whatever; I'm not on an adcom and I seriously doubt adcoms care.
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Denny Crane

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2007, 05:46:00 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

The term African American is used as a racial category, not a national one.  I agree that statistical forms should use Black or even Black/African American to be more correct, but if they don't it is completely stupid for someone with 2 Black parents and 4 Black grandparents to check Other.  I'm not Other, I'm Black.  If they happen to put African-American, then that's what I will always check.  Deal with it.  There is no international category because they're not trying to record nationality.  They're trying to record 'race' (whatever that means) and for that I can only be Black, African American, Negro or Colored.  Whatever you call it, that's what I am.

Moni, I agree with you about checking African American in the absence of a "black" option, but it's not fair to say that Mexicans and Cubans have had the same experiences as Mexican-Americans or Cuban-Americans.  Because I agree with you that the options are meant to record racial information, not national information, that ultimately none of this matters, but clearly people of different national origins are going to have different experiences, especially when some are racial minorities in their country and others are racial majorities in theirs. 
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2007, 06:20:42 PM »
How about we make it simple for everyone: Black, White, Asian, Pacific Islander, Indian, American Indian (or Native American Indian-they can't make up their mind what they want to be called either), Aboriginal, Hispanic/Latino (again, Mexicans want to be called Mexicans and Mexican Americans can't agree on what to be called).  I think that this whole argument is stupid.  Why don't white people argue about whether they are of English, French, German, Polish, Italian, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Dutch, Swiss (French OR German speaking), etc.  And what about people who are mixed? When I lived in Newark people I met people who were part Asian, Black, and Hispanic?  Who do they identify with?  Black is black, white is white.  If you want to differentiate between your heritage, that is for you and your family.  RACE does not include heritage. 

pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2007, 09:25:05 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

The term African American is used as a racial category, not a national one.  I agree that statistical forms should use Black or even Black/African American to be more correct, but if they don't it is completely stupid for someone with 2 Black parents and 4 Black grandparents to check Other.  I'm not Other, I'm Black.  If they happen to put African-American, then that's what I will always check.  Deal with it.  There is no international category because they're not trying to record nationality.  They're trying to record 'race' (whatever that means) and for that I can only be Black, African American, Negro or Colored.  Whatever you call it, that's what I am.

Moni, I agree with you about checking African American in the absence of a "black" option, but it's not fair to say that Mexicans and Cubans have had the same experiences as Mexican-Americans or Cuban-Americans.  Because I agree with you that the options are meant to record racial information, not national information, that ultimately none of this matters, but clearly people of different national origins are going to have different experiences, especially when some are racial minorities in their country and others are racial majorities in theirs. 

I never said that Mexicans or Cubans have the same experiences as Mexican-Americans et al.  I just pointed out that for statistical purposes, it really doesn't matter if you were born in the US, Europe or Africa.  If you're 'racially' Black, you're Black or African American.  You're Asian regardless or Hispanic regardless.  The intent is not to determine your nationial origin.
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2007, 09:29:52 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

I was responding to the bolded part of your quote.  I probably misread it, though it did seem to me that you were saying that Cubans and Mexicans have had the same experiences as Hispanic-Americans, which I felt was wrong.
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pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2007, 09:33:45 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

I was responding to the bolded part of your quote.  I probably misread it, though it did seem to me that you were saying that Cubans and Mexicans have had the same experiences as Hispanic-Americans, which I felt was wrong.

No, I was just saying that the "Hispanic" box is for all Hispanics, not just those in the US.
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lsn

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2007, 05:02:06 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.

Umm, who the hell are you to tell me what I should check?  The Italicised is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  If you want to make a relevant comparison, its equivalent to a Cuban or a Mexican checking the box, even though they do not have the "Hispanic-American" experience.  Oh, wait, they do.  Dumbass.

The term African American is used as a racial category, not a national one.  I agree that statistical forms should use Black or even Black/African American to be more correct, but if they don't it is completely stupid for someone with 2 Black parents and 4 Black grandparents to check Other.  I'm not Other, I'm Black.  If they happen to put African-American, then that's what I will always check.  Deal with it.  There is no international category because they're not trying to record nationality.  They're trying to record 'race' (whatever that means) and for that I can only be Black, African American, Negro or Colored.  Whatever you call it, that's what I am.

;D ;D ;D ;D I MUST HAVE STRUCK A NERVE...No one is telling you what to do, I just stated that as a black person born and bred in this country whose parent suffered through Jim Crow and segregated schools that I disagree with your actions.  I happen to disagree with your actions because personally I do not think that they are in the spirit of the purpose of affirmative action legislation, which I think is to assist disadvantaged Black-Americans.  Granted this is just my personal opinion, I'm no adcom, and the adcom probably doesn't really care either, because to them a spade is a spade. 

To be quite frank, I think that you are taking it so personally because you are not disadvantaged and know little with regard to the Black-American experience, yet you are still taking advantage of the system as if you have suffered by being black.  And if you ceased to defend your actions then that would be an admission of guilt.  But maybe you can relate to the Black-American, because you've lived in the US for most of your life and maybe you have been subjected to its institutionalized racial disparities.  Maybe this is the case.  However based on your reaction, I have an exceedingly strong feeling that you have not been "privy" to the Black-American experience, how could you be you're not a Black-American.  You don't even know what you don't know about the Black-American experience, you're looking out for number one and defending your actions because that's the "natural" thing to do.  I say natural because people generally take actions based upon their own self-interest.

You speak of not denying your race, but are you not denying your country when you put African-American? African-American is defined as " a member of an ethnic group in the United States whose ancestors, usually in predominant part, were indigenous to Sub-Saharan Africa."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American 

You say that the intent is to survey race and not nationality, whatever helps you sleep at night.  And last but not least, I love it when I get people so mad that they call me out of my name, the sheer eloquence is dumbfounding   :-*
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