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Author Topic: Black LSAT statistics  (Read 16981 times)

deltaAoverT

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Black LSAT statistics
« on: February 16, 2007, 11:17:53 AM »
Hi all-

Last year I came across the following factiod when researching minority performance on standardized tests:

"…for high school seniors across the country in 2005, there were 864 African-Americans and 2,033 Latinos who earned a composite score of 29 or above on the ACT, while 66,708 white seniors did."

Does anyone know where I could locate similar statistics for the LSAT?  The project is over, it's more out of personal interest now.

Ulfrekr

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 12:43:42 PM »
Delta, did you find what you were looking for? I'd be interested in that info.
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 01:32:17 PM »
There are also lots of interesting studies here:

http://www.lsacnet.org/Research/TOC-research-reports2.htm

TurboGirl

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 08:11:25 PM »
Hi all-

Last year I came across the following factiod when researching minority performance on standardized tests:

"…for high school seniors across the country in 2005, there were 864 African-Americans and 2,033 Latinos who earned a composite score of 29 or above on the ACT, while 66,708 white seniors did."

Does anyone know where I could locate similar statistics for the LSAT?  The project is over, it's more out of personal interest now.

A more accurate statistic would show what overall percentage of African Americans and what percentage of whites made these scores.

Even if ALL black seniors in the study scored 29 or higher the number would probably still be smaller.

African Americans only make up 12% of the American population.

 Fewer of these blacks are African American. Did you mean just African American or all blacks?

TurboGirl

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 08:18:33 PM »
While I do agree that rates are important, I feel that the fact that the numbers are so low bear more weight.  Say the ACT has LSAT like status and is the only test administered for college.  Each of the top ten schools has a 25% score of 29 and approximately 100 Black students in its 1st year class.  Regardless of the rate (since black applicants and matrics are already underrepresented), you've got an issue of more spaces than "qualified" applicants.  I personally think that the standardized test, while useful, does not tell the whole story.  I also think that as a race, it is less likely for blacks to use test prep services, because they are either unaware of the services (didn't know what an SAT tutor was in high school), don't have financial resources, or have priorities (financial and otherwise) placed elsewhere.  Notice I didn't say misplaced.

And for purposes of admissions, black=African American.  Origin/heritage doesn't matter.

I'm not disagreeing that the numbers for blacks are lower, but without a percentage rate the gap can be skewed to look much larger than it is.

If 100 people take a test, and the results show 50 whites make A's while only 3 blacks make A's it would seem to be a huger gap if people didn't realize that there were only 12 blacks to begin with....

To really be accurate, you would have to say that 25% of black students made A's or the results are going to be screwed since there are fewer black students taking the test than white students..

Yes African-American's are blacks, but not all blacks are African-American. When reporting statistics it is important to know whether the study was just about African American's or about all blacks. If the study were about all blacks the number of 170+ scorers would most likely be higher than if the study were just about African-American blacks which could lead people who don't read as carefully to making false assumptions about blacks as a whole rather than a subset of the black community.

Catherine Morland

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 01:23:59 AM »
While I do agree that rates are important, I feel that the fact that the numbers are so low bear more weight.  Say the ACT has LSAT like status and is the only test administered for college.  Each of the top ten schools has a 25% score of 29 and approximately 100 Black students in its 1st year class.  Regardless of the rate (since black applicants and matrics are already underrepresented), you've got an issue of more spaces than "qualified" applicants.  I personally think that the standardized test, while useful, does not tell the whole story.  I also think that as a race, it is less likely for blacks to use test prep services, because they are either unaware of the services (didn't know what an SAT tutor was in high school), don't have financial resources, or have priorities (financial and otherwise) placed elsewhere.  Notice I didn't say misplaced.

And for purposes of admissions, black=African American.  Origin/heritage doesn't matter.

I'm not disagreeing that the numbers for blacks are lower, but without a percentage rate the gap can be skewed to look much larger than it is.

If 100 people take a test, and the results show 50 whites make A's while only 3 blacks make A's it would seem to be a huger gap if people didn't realize that there were only 12 blacks to begin with....

To really be accurate, you would have to say that 25% of black students made A's or the results are going to be screwed since there are fewer black students taking the test than white students..

Yes African-American's are blacks, but not all blacks are African-American. When reporting statistics it is important to know whether the study was just about African American's or about all blacks. If the study were about all blacks the number of 170+ scorers would most likely be higher than if the study were just about African-American blacks which could lead people who don't read as carefully to making false assumptions about blacks as a whole rather than a subset of the black community.

Are you comfortable making that distinction? The last time I self-identified, I don't recall being asked to clarify whether I was black or African-American. The statistics of170+ scorers comes from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which uses the terms interchangeably.
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TurboGirl

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 01:38:00 AM »
While I do agree that rates are important, I feel that the fact that the numbers are so low bear more weight.  Say the ACT has LSAT like status and is the only test administered for college.  Each of the top ten schools has a 25% score of 29 and approximately 100 Black students in its 1st year class.  Regardless of the rate (since black applicants and matrics are already underrepresented), you've got an issue of more spaces than "qualified" applicants.  I personally think that the standardized test, while useful, does not tell the whole story.  I also think that as a race, it is less likely for blacks to use test prep services, because they are either unaware of the services (didn't know what an SAT tutor was in high school), don't have financial resources, or have priorities (financial and otherwise) placed elsewhere.  Notice I didn't say misplaced.

And for purposes of admissions, black=African American.  Origin/heritage doesn't matter.

I'm not disagreeing that the numbers for blacks are lower, but without a percentage rate the gap can be skewed to look much larger than it is.

If 100 people take a test, and the results show 50 whites make A's while only 3 blacks make A's it would seem to be a huger gap if people didn't realize that there were only 12 blacks to begin with....

To really be accurate, you would have to say that 25% of black students made A's or the results are going to be screwed since there are fewer black students taking the test than white students..

Yes African-American's are blacks, but not all blacks are African-American. When reporting statistics it is important to know whether the study was just about African American's or about all blacks. If the study were about all blacks the number of 170+ scorers would most likely be higher than if the study were just about African-American blacks which could lead people who don't read as carefully to making false assumptions about blacks as a whole rather than a subset of the black community.

Are you comfortable making that distinction? The last time I self-identified, I don't recall being asked to clarify whether I was black or African-American. The statistics of170+ scorers comes from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which uses the terms interchangeably.

I don't have a problem making that distinction if asked. I was just wondering whether the survey said black or African American. Mainly because in statistics people make conclusions based on assumptions or because of overlooking friends. I have friends of West-Indian background here in the states who are black but certainly not African American and wouldn't appreciate being called so. The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 02:29:42 AM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.   

I realize that may be the case, but wanted to make sure that in this specific study there was no differentiation. It doesn't hurt to clarify.

pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 09:48:34 PM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 09:37:47 AM »
Quote
The term black can be used for anyone, but African-American can't be used to describe all blacks.
I feel as though the Black vs. African-American vs. African Heritage vs. Regular Black vs. Caribbean argument could spawn a thread of its own.  Although you may disagree with semantics, for test reporting purposes, and in the eyes of most people looking at statistics, black and African-American are interchangeable.    


Titcr.  I'm definitely not African-American (since I'm not American) but if that was the only option (ie just AA, not AA/Black), I would check that.  I think most people I know who are Black but not American do the same.

I disagree with doing that...it's inaccurate.  Equivalent to a Spaniard checking off hispanic because it's convenient and will benefit them while they do not personally identify with the Hispanic-American experience.  For diversity purposes, check International or Other and include a comment...anything else is unfair, misleading and goes against the spirit of legislation put in place to assist historically disadvantaged AMERICAN people.  But that's a completely different thread.
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