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Author Topic: Black LSAT statistics  (Read 16627 times)

Special Agent Dana Scully

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2007, 05:16:51 PM »
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Miss P

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2007, 05:37:30 PM »
There is no question, I think, that black applicants from recent-immigrant backgrounds are disproportionately well-placed to benefit from the "Black" designation on college and professional school applications. Black lawyers, physicians, investment bankser, etc are increasingly of proximate Nigerian, Ghanaian, Eritro-Ethiopian & Jamaican backgrounds.  It is not hard to see how this could excacerbate the Good-Black/Bad-Black dynamic that will further serve to stereotype and stigmatize African-Americans, a process that is already well under way. In so far as a major objective of AA is to reverse stereotyping and stigmatization of African-Americans over time, this is or would be a perverse result.

I think this is an interesting issue, and I'd like to see some research on whether the good black/bad black dynamic operates through national-ethnic distinctions as much as it does through class (or at all).  If you know of any resources, let me know. :)



That's cool how you referenced a case.

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pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2007, 07:25:10 PM »
white hispanic is just a category that they have on aps.  Maybe I should have been more clear.  I understand that there are white mexicans (which actually pokes holes in your discrimination argument).  I also know what a mestizo is. 

"they have reasoned that they are a Black voice.  Period.  Blackness is defined by 'racial' factors, not nationality. "

and thats the problem.  if they were to be consistent across the board, and say a hispanic voice is a hispanic voice.  I would understand.  However schools clearly make the distinction between a Mexican and a Hispanic born in Spain.  I posit that this has to do with the prevalence of Mexicans in the US.  Why have people from Spain receiving the boost, when Mexicans are the vast majority of Hispanics in the US?  And thus need the representation.  However, American born blacks are just as prevalent as Mexicans.  And worthy of the same consideration, in regards to nationality, in my eyes.  If not, keep it consistant across the board.  Hispanic is hispanic.  Black is black.

People born in Spain aren't Hispanic and don't receive a boost.  Hispanic is Hispanic.
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pikey

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2007, 07:31:18 PM »

I think that I agree with you, but I'm not sure this is the crucial distinction.  Non-American black lawyers who want to practice in the U.S. bring at least some of the same special (if not unproblematically assessed ;))value as African American lawyers, right?  I could be missing something here.

I agree with you about the rest.  I'm just less sure, perhaps, that affirmative action programs really do lead to the kinds of comprehensive assessments of merit (however defined) we want.  Law schools look to cut corners, and I think they do so by admitting a minimum number of black applicants, and they assess those candidates principally based on numbers.  To this extent, African American applicants and international black applicants may really be pitted against each other.  

I still think the programs, as they stand, are better than any of the available (legal) alternatives (e.g., not actual, if flexible, quota systems -- which I would endorse), and I am still entirely behind (a) any school's attempts to admit and matriculate more black students, whether they be African American or otherwise black, and (b) any black applicant's "checking the box," whether they be African American or otherwise black.  I would just love to see school's take a more critical look at the value of the LSAT, for example.

I agree 100% with the last couple of paragraphs.

As to the first paragraph, I am concerned that the way that schools implement affirmative action will inexorably lead to the increasing invisibility of African-Americans in professional life.

There is no question, I think, that black applicants from recent-immigrant backgrounds are disproportionately well-placed to benefit from the "Black" designation on college and professional school applications. Black lawyers, physicians, investment bankser, etc are increasingly of proximate Nigerian, Ghanaian, Eritro-Ethiopian & Jamaican backgrounds.  It is not hard to see how this could excacerbate the Good-Black/Bad-Black dynamic that will further serve to stereotype and stigmatize African-Americans, a process that is already well under way. In so far as a major objective of AA is to reverse stereotyping and stigmatization of African-Americans over time, this is or would be a perverse result.

Just like all other immigrant groups, it becomes less of a problem as Blacks assimilate.  I have tons of friends who are Black Americans but their parents are immigrants and you could not tell the difference between them and a 'regular African American' unless you knew.  Other Black people wouldn't know (unless they were told) and White people definitely don't know that they aren't as African American as Alex Haley. 

I think Miss P is correct in saying that the Good Black is more of a class issue than a nationality/ethnicity issue.  These up-and-coming immigrants (and children of immigrants) will (mostly) marry middle and upper class blacks (immigrants and AAs).

The issue that bothers me: How long (in terms of family history) does one have to be in the US to be considered African American?
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Miss P

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2007, 09:33:29 PM »
I think it should be a matter of self-identification more than anything else.  Not that anyone asked me. :D
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2007, 01:51:38 AM »
Reading some of this I thought I should add that not all blacks born in the United States are African-American. I know many black people who have parents who were both born in Trinidad, or Gayana, while they were born here in the U.S. By saying that only African-Americans should be able to check the box, that closes the door for a lot of other American blacks. Personally I've never noticed the box with the option of only African-American, for me it's always said Black/African American which brought up my question in the first place.

It's difficult to really get on anyone's case about being foreign born and raised, then checking the African-American box when, as shown in the confusion displayed in this topic, there is such a lack-of-clarification, ignorance, and indifference surrounding the requirements for any given box.

That being said, I find it interesting that some surveys go the extra step and tell you if you aren't sure, or are of mixed heritage, to check the box of whichever option you appear closest too.

Miss P

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2007, 04:47:24 PM »

Do I sense skepticism? [ :)]

Actually, seriously not at all.  I don't know anything about this kind of stuff (I know about differences in achievement, but that's it).  I was (and am) genuinely curious, if a little too lazy to wade through all those names.  If you can come up with a specific cite or two, I'd be very grateful. :)
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2007, 05:13:44 PM »
"People born in Spain aren't Hispanic and don't receive a boost.  Hispanic is Hispanic"

okay.  I did not know people from Spain aren't considered Hispanic.  At any rate, thats just one example.  Cubans ARE Hispanic, yet they don't receive the Mexican boost.  Hispanic is not Hispanic.  Some Hispanics get greater boosts than others.  Why does nationaility matter with Hispanics, but not with blacks?  Again, I posit that it is a way to tweak the numbers.  I disagree with that strategy.  It is disingenuous.  Otherwise, be the same across the board.
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Special Agent Dana Scully

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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2007, 06:27:08 PM »
"People born in Spain aren't Hispanic and don't receive a boost.  Hispanic is Hispanic"

okay.  I did not know people from Spain aren't considered Hispanic.  At any rate, thats just one example.  Cubans ARE Hispanic, yet they don't receive the Mexican boost.  Hispanic is not Hispanic.  Some Hispanics get greater boosts than others.  Why does nationaility matter with Hispanics, but not with blacks?  Again, I posit that it is a way to tweak the numbers.  I disagree with that strategy.  It is disingenuous.  Otherwise, be the same across the board.


I didn't know that Mexican = Hispanic.

Hispanic refers to the ppl from the Spanish diaspora iirc, that's why Spainards aren't considered hispanic.
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Re: Black LSAT statistics
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2007, 07:03:10 PM »
"People born in Spain aren't Hispanic and don't receive a boost.  Hispanic is Hispanic"

okay.  I did not know people from Spain aren't considered Hispanic.  At any rate, thats just one example.  Cubans ARE Hispanic, yet they don't receive the Mexican boost.  Hispanic is not Hispanic.  Some Hispanics get greater boosts than others.  Why does nationaility matter with Hispanics, but not with blacks?  Again, I posit that it is a way to tweak the numbers.  I disagree with that strategy.  It is disingenuous.  Otherwise, be the same across the board.


Nationality doesn't matter with Hispanics. Mexicans are not Hispanics which is why they are not grouped together. Saying that Mexicans and Cubans should get the same boost on the basis that they are both Hispanics is incorrect.