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Author Topic: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info  (Read 22834 times)

Andrew

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***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« on: February 08, 2007, 07:20:54 PM »
Hi all,

Starting with the February 2007 LSAT, I'm making a new rule: do not post information about unreleased LSATs.  This means no attempting to reconstruct the test, no discussing specific questions, etc.

I've asked the LSAC to comment on why this is a problem, and they will be posting in this thread.  I will move their post to be right after this one.  Essentially, people have been concerned about dishonest behavior in connection with unreleased test questions.  You may think you're just discussing how you did on the test, but if you give too many details, you may be enabling someone else to cheat.  Remember that the LSAT is given in different time zones and on different days.  To be a fair test, no one should have extra test-specific information going in.

I've been emailing with the LSAC folks for a while on this, and they've agreed to answer any questions you have about what you should or shouldn't post.  Please don't overwhelm them with emails though.

If you see any posts on test day that appear to violate this policy, please be especially vigilant and use the "report to moderator" link. This way we can remove it before someone cheats.

LSAC

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 09:57:48 AM »
The Law School Admission Council (LSAC) understands and sympathizes with the anxiety that the LSAT causes test takers and their strong desire to discuss with their peers the questions that they have just taken on the LSAT.  However, LSAC prohibits such discussion, including the so-called “postmortem” discussion of test questions immediately after a particular test administration, because it has the potential to affect the fairness of the LSAT and the law school admission process. Certain LSATs are non-disclosed and their questions may be used again at a later administration of the test.  And even in the case of disclosed tests there may be circumstances in which LSAC may need to administer a test form to some test takers somewhat later than to others.  Discussion of test questions in a public forum like a website before the test is disclosed, even though its usefulness is limited by the memory and ability of the participants, makes information about that test widely available to anyone who has access to the web and may unfairly advantage test takers who see the discussion before they take the test. Since the number of admission slots in law schools is limited, such an unfair advantage could penalize those who took the test at an earlier time, including those very people engaging in the post-mortem discussion.

In an effort to ensure the fairness of the LSAT, LSAC requires test takers to sign a statement on the LSAT answer sheet saying that they agree not to “copy or retain examination questions or to transmit them to or discuss them with any other person in any form.” In addition, test takers sign a certification statement on the LSAT admission ticket agreeing that they have “no right to reproduce, recreate, distribute, or sell any of that test.”  In this statement they also certify that they “understand that the Law School Admission Council reserves the right to pursue all suitable courses of action to prevent fraudulent or unauthorized use of its property and to prevent the compromise of secure test material.”  Thus, test takers enter into a contract with LSAC that they will not discuss with others the test questions they have taken. In addition, LSAC’s “Instructions for the Day of the Test” state: “Legal action may be taken against anyone who removes test materials and/or reproduces test material in any way, or shares LSAT test content prior to LSAC’s disclosure of that test.”

If inappropriate public discussion of test questions on public websites reaches a point at which it threatens to undermine the fairness of the LSAT, injuring LSAT test takers, or at which it damages the value of non-disclosed LSAT test forms, LSAC would be compelled to take appropriate action to prevent such injury or damage.  These actions could include reporting violators to the LSAC Misconduct Committee.  Admission to the bar and the practice of law impose high standards of conduct and LSAC member law schools take very seriously the integrity of the candidates they admit.

LSAC does not seek to take special steps to enforce its prohibition on the inappropriate discussion of test questions.  We would prefer that test takers recognize that compromising test questions before they have been disclosed by LSAC runs counter to the general interest of test takers in a fair testing process, as well as to the personal interest of those discussing the questions, and voluntarily refrain from discussing LSAT questions until after they have been disclosed to test takers by LSAC.  However, we believe that we have an obligation to both our law school members and our test takers to protect the fairness and integrity of the LSAT and the law school admission process, and we take that obligation very seriously.

Jim Vaseleck
Executive Assistant to the President and Associate Counsel, LSAC

toponepercent

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 10:09:15 AM »
Andrew,

I commend you for helping LSAC and contributing to making the exam more equitable.

In this age of global instantaneous information, I think LSAC needs to reconsider how they administer the exam.  Your forum is one of many, and if it does not have the "hot" info that people are looking for, they can easily find it somewhere else.  We are now in an age with no time zones.  So, while it will make LSAC's job a bit harder, I think they need to tweak their exams for each time zone.  They need to assume that when students leave the exam they will go straight to a computer and e mail their friends about what they know.  It's not a good thing to assume, and it's entirely unfortunate, but realistically, that is the world we live in.

I am entirely supportive of Mr. Vaseleck's obligation to protect the integrity and fairness of the exam.  With pre Law students these days having multiple anonymous accounts with changing IP addresses, Mr. Vaseleck's job is not easy.  I suggest tweaking the exam in ways that make it counterproductive to people who try to share information in an unauthorized fashion.  LSAC would not necessarily have to reveal how it goes about doing so.  It could be something that people find out on their own on discussion boards.

Jonathan
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Garry Shandling

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 05:03:56 PM »
Toponepercent -

The LSAC doesn't need to do anything but aggresively pursue anyone breaking the rules they agree to when they take the test and note any rule breaking in their LSAC file. 

If someone wants to break the rules by discussing the test, they run the risk of ruining their chances at getting admitted to law school, and/or getting accepted to the bar.  Only a few people need be caught for this to be an effective policy.

So long as LSAC is fair about explaining the crime and the punishment in advance, they will have no problem curbing the discussion they are trying to avoid.
I hope steve.jd and CS4L hang out at Harvard.  The combined gravitic pull of their prestige-egos will put (everyone) into orbit.  After a short time, they will all collapse upon each other creating the first man made black hole...

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 05:06:48 PM »
Toponepercent -

The LSAC doesn't need to do anything but aggresively pursue anyone breaking the rules they agree to when they take the test and note any rule breaking in their LSAC file. 

If someone wants to break the rules by discussing the test, they run the risk of ruining their chances at getting admitted to law school, and/or getting accepted to the bar.  Only a few people need be caught for this to be an effective policy.

So long as LSAC is fair about explaining the crime and the punishment in advance, they will have no problem curbing the discussion they are trying to avoid.

I can't believe I'm going to side with toponepercent on this one, so I'm going to post this and then think long and hard about whether or not I really mean it.

But... this does not stop millions from Internet poker/illegal music downloads.
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Garry Shandling

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 05:12:17 PM »
Toponepercent -

The LSAC doesn't need to do anything but aggresively pursue anyone breaking the rules they agree to when they take the test and note any rule breaking in their LSAC file. 

If someone wants to break the rules by discussing the test, they run the risk of ruining their chances at getting admitted to law school, and/or getting accepted to the bar.  Only a few people need be caught for this to be an effective policy.

So long as LSAC is fair about explaining the crime and the punishment in advance, they will have no problem curbing the discussion they are trying to avoid.

I can't believe I'm going to side with toponepercent on this one, so I'm going to post this and then think long and hard about whether or not I really mean it.

But... this does not stop millions from Internet poker/illegal music downloads.

Because the stakes are just as high for internet poker and illegal music downloads as they are for admission to law school and the bar.

And precisely because it's impossible to catch EVERYONE, the punishment must be harsh and severe.  Will it stop all posting about questions?  Probably not.  But it will certainly minimize it.

Kudos, LSAC.
I hope steve.jd and CS4L hang out at Harvard.  The combined gravitic pull of their prestige-egos will put (everyone) into orbit.  After a short time, they will all collapse upon each other creating the first man made black hole...

bobknob

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 02:06:53 AM »
I think that the best course of action would be that LSAC doesn't reuse portions of any test, and never administers the same test at a later date for anyone, because that has the potential to be unfair regardless of whether people make post-mortems on LSD. If anything, the post-mortems on LSD do a remarkable job of demonstrating how foolish LSAC would be to ever reuse the same test material because it most definitely gives people the ability to cheat.

Whether you prohibit post-mortems on LSD or not is a non-issue, because the above helds in either instance.

Edited, because I said something slightly unfair.

bobknob

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 02:16:48 AM »
Administer a different test in Hawaii and have the rest simultaneously across only four time zones.

LatherRinseRepeat

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 02:18:07 AM »
Administer a different test in Hawaii and have the rest simultaneously across only four time zones.

i wouldn't mind taking it at 6pm east coast time.  not a morning person.
I respectfully disagree!!

LatherRinseRepeat

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Re: ***Please Read*** Do not post unreleased LSAT info
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 10:53:10 PM »
Administer a different test in Hawaii and have the rest simultaneously across only four time zones.

i wouldn't mind taking it at 6pm east coast time.  not a morning person.

I agree, 3pm west coast would be perfect.

I like to begin enjoying the morning at a time much later than noon.  ;)


Could you imagine what would happen if they really did make everyone take it at the same time??  All the morning people would fly to hawaii to take it, the afternoon folks would fly to cali, and then the insominacs who prefer to think later in the day would round up on the east coast. 
I respectfully disagree!!