Law School Discussion

gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?

Steve.jd

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #310 on: February 11, 2007, 12:07:09 PM »
I was really very confused by all of this.  First, because Steve was really into Michigan until Harvard decided to take him (I think late, although I might be wrong about that), and also because I'd never noticed him being a prestige whore at all last cycle. 

Oh, and I have no idea what Cravath is. 

I actually thought we were talking about ties. 

I've always liked Michigan and still do - I was actually into Michigan until NYU gave me money, then into NYU until CLS gave me money, then into H.

Just, because I like a school doesn't mean that I have to unquestioningly spew forth all its virtues without tempering them with some (of what I see as) defects.

I think, for "all intensive purposes", this one sentence justifies every allegation of prestige-whoredom made against Steve, now or in the future.



Just out of curiousity do you think I should have went to Mich over HLS?  Would you?

I would, actually. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to, you included. I just have a strong affinity for Michigan rooted in my early childhood, and grandiose prestige really isn't very important to me. I also aspire to be educated, from Pre-K through university, JD, LL.M., and S.J.D., entirely by public instututions. So, I'm not a good example.


I think you're still missing the point, though. Nobody begrudges you choosing Harvard. The fact that you so reliably switched preferences on the basis of single ranking in USNews is really pretty disturbing... People here aren't arguing that NO difference exists b/w Mich. and Harvard, but that the difference is not particularly material. They're saying, it's not BIG enough for you to make such a big deal of it. It's a different argument.

In my defense I actually switched from Mich to NYU when NYU became cheaper to CLS when CLS became cheaper and to HLS which was the cheapest option of all.  So, if anything I was picking schools based not on rankings but on cost.

EDIT: Full disclosure - I would have picked HLS over any other school regardless of cost, but for those who actually remember me from last cycle if you recall when I got into CLS I didn't want to go because NYU was so much cheaper.  I changed my mind after they basically matched NYU.

.....

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #311 on: February 11, 2007, 12:08:00 PM »
I was really very confused by all of this.  First, because Steve was really into Michigan until Harvard decided to take him (I think late, although I might be wrong about that), and also because I'd never noticed him being a prestige whore at all last cycle. 

Oh, and I have no idea what Cravath is. 

I actually thought we were talking about ties. 

I've always liked Michigan and still do - I was actually into Michigan until NYU gave me money, then into NYU until CLS gave me money, then into H.

Just, because I like a school doesn't mean that I have to unquestioningly spew forth all its virtues without tempering them with some (of what I see as) defects.

I think, for "all intensive purposes", this one sentence justifies every allegation of prestige-whoredom made against Steve, now or in the future.



Just out of curiousity do you think I should have went to Mich over HLS?  Would you?

I would, actually. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to, you included. I just have a strong affinity for Michigan rooted in my early childhood, and grandiose prestige really isn't very important to me. I also aspire to be educated, from Pre-K through university, JD, LL.M., and S.J.D., entirely by public instututions. So, I'm not a good example.


I think you're still missing the point, though. Nobody begrudges you choosing Harvard. The fact that you so reliably switched preferences on the basis of single ranking in USNews is really pretty disturbing... People here aren't arguing that NO difference exists b/w Mich. and Harvard, but that the difference is not particularly material. They're saying, it's not BIG enough for you to make such a big deal of it. It's a different argument.

In my defense I actually switched from Mich to NYU when NYU became cheaper to CLS when CLS became cheaper and to HLS which was the cheapest option of all.  So, if anything I was picking schools based not on rankings but on cost.

Fair enough.

.....

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #312 on: February 11, 2007, 12:15:54 PM »

I would, actually. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to, you included. I just have a strong affinity for Michigan rooted in my early childhood, and grandiose prestige really isn't very important to me. I also aspire to be educated, from Pre-K through university, JD, LL.M., and S.J.D., entirely by public instututions. So, I'm not a good example.

That's really interesting (and not in a prestige-whorish way).  Can I ask why?

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teachers' union activist and I was brought up with that influence (I'm equally supportive of labor unions). I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Also, it meshes with my interest areas: Tax policy, government benefits, civil service and military issues, family law. I think it's particularly appropriate (even poetic) for someone with those interests to be educated entirely by taxpayer-funded institutions.

Garry Shandling

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #313 on: February 11, 2007, 12:18:18 PM »

I would, actually. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to, you included. I just have a strong affinity for Michigan rooted in my early childhood, and grandiose prestige really isn't very important to me. I also aspire to be educated, from Pre-K through university, JD, LL.M., and S.J.D., entirely by public instututions. So, I'm not a good example.

That's really interesting (and not in a prestige-whorish way).  Can I ask why?

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Braggard.

Denny Crane

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #314 on: February 11, 2007, 12:21:00 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

Steve.jd

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #315 on: February 11, 2007, 12:22:33 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

His argument makes sense if you buy the idea that a class that has smart students will be a better learning experience because they will help facilitate and improve the discussion.  Especially in a place like law school you learn just as much from your peers as you do from the professor. 

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #316 on: February 11, 2007, 12:24:11 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

His argument makes sense if you buy the idea that a class that has smart students will be a better learning experience because they will help facilitate and improve the discussion.  Especially in a place like law school you learn just as much from your peers as you do from the professor. 

Well put.

Denny Crane

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #317 on: February 11, 2007, 12:28:21 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

His argument makes sense if you buy the idea that a class that has smart students will be a better learning experience because they will help facilitate and improve the discussion.  Especially in a place like law school you learn just as much from your peers as you do from the professor. 

Top schools like Mich/UVA/Berkeley have no problem attracting top students.  Not sure that the departure of some applicants to other top schools hurts those top publics very much at all.  I can see this making more sense for other publics, but not those three (plus UT, UCLA, etc).

Steve.jd

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #318 on: February 11, 2007, 12:29:53 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

His argument makes sense if you buy the idea that a class that has smart students will be a better learning experience because they will help facilitate and improve the discussion.  Especially in a place like law school you learn just as much from your peers as you do from the professor. 

Top schools like Mich/UVA/Berkeley have no problem attracting top students.  Not sure that the departure of some applicants to other top schools hurts those top publics very much at all.  I can see this making more sense for other publics, but not those three (plus UT, UCLA, etc).

I was just making the argument for public schools in general.  Personally, I think its more applicable for high school than for higher education.

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Re: gotten into great schools....but still disappointed. any thoughts?
« Reply #319 on: February 11, 2007, 12:31:54 PM »

Idealistic belief in the power and importance of public education. Other than that, my Dad is a teacher's union activist and I was brought up with that influence. I believe strongly in the duty of a just society to assure opportunity, and as a (relatively) talented person, I think it's goood for talented people to patronize the system. If everyone smart is "sorted" out of public education and cherry-picked into private institutions, it dilutes the quality of the public education's student body and thus the strength and viability of the programs.

That said, I'm no saint, and this is by no means an OVERRIDING need. I applied to some private schools, as well, just in case... but a law school's public status earns it a lot of points with me. (Yes, I realize how strange that is.) That's just my preferred result.

Please forgive the naive question, but why is it important for "smart" students to remain at a public institution?  I'm not quite sure I see how their absence would harm the strength/viability of the programs.  It seems to me that the strength of a school comes from its abilities to produce excellent graduates far more so than it comes from attracting excellent applicants.

His argument makes sense if you buy the idea that a class that has smart students will be a better learning experience because they will help facilitate and improve the discussion.  Especially in a place like law school you learn just as much from your peers as you do from the professor. 

Top schools like Mich/UVA/Berkeley have no problem attracting top students.  Not sure that the departure of some applicants to other top schools hurts those top publics very much at all.  I can see this making more sense for other publics, but not those three (plus UT, UCLA, etc).

Oh, I agree entirely. All are excellent examples of how well public institutions can do, given the appropriate circumstances. It's more a romantic notion than a principled stand, really.