PENN 1L

[nmb238]

If you don't mind answering this, how is Penn with Fin aid (both need and merit based)? I'm looking at a free-ride at GW vs Penn and I'm not real sure Penn will offer me anything.

Also, as a New Yorker, how safe do you feel Philly is? I've spoken to people who mention "rape lines" in the bathrooms at UPenn, where women can pull them if they're being attacked...which sounded bizarre. Is the campus relatively safe? I know very little about Philly, but figured it can't be much worse than some parts of Bklyn.

Thanks for being so candid in this thread!

1. Fin Aid- i didnt get any, so I cant talk about this topic with ANY authority. I did choose Penn over $$ from GW though and i dont regret it- I think that I will be able to pay off my loans pretty quickly tho, bec Penn kids get amazing jobs and the market is insanely good right now.

2. Philly has some shady areas- West of the law school is ghetto, Center City is very nice. I think NY is a lil bit better in this regard, but not all that much so. But I guess its a consideration. I miss NY subways like crazy and feel way safer on them there than I do here. I know people have been mugged in West Philly and there are some shady apt buildings- but agian, if you stick to CC or the area right around the law school Ive never heard of anyone having an issue.

i can add that Penn had some spring recruitment for 1Ls for the summer, and a ton of the people who interviewed got callbacks and offers, at some pretty nice firms, ie theyre making 30 grand this summer. And alot with very very average grades. Makes me feel very confident for the fall...

[squirrelrogue]

I can tell you that CLS' reputation is, well... Id understand that Penn v NYU or Penn v Harvard is real decision to make- and id prob choose Harvard over Penn just bec of the name- but CLS is just.. i dunno, they seem to make law school more miserable than it has to be. Its insanely competitive even though EVERYONE graduating from CLS (and Harv, and Penn, and NYU) gets great jobs.

its so silly. i miss NY like crazy but im sooo happy not to be at Columbia.

to each their own i guess.

wow, what did columbia do to you? 

seriously though, as someone leaning toward cls over more "laid back" schools like boalt and NYU, i'm interested in where this reputation comes from.  i've heard it several times, but it's always "i heard from someone who knows someone..." or "everyone knows that..." or "some people from my high school go to columbia law and its just so cutthroat"

on the other hand, everyone i've talked to who goes there (both on discussion boards and visiting) seems nice, relaxed, engaging, and really enjoys the atmosphere.

so, sorry to hijack this thread away from penn, but if you dont mind sharing how exactly you came to believe columbia is such an awful place, i'd be really interested.

[Special Agent Dana Scully]

I can tell you that CLS' reputation is, well... Id understand that Penn v NYU or Penn v Harvard is real decision to make- and id prob choose Harvard over Penn just bec of the name- but CLS is just.. i dunno, they seem to make law school more miserable than it has to be. Its insanely competitive even though EVERYONE graduating from CLS (and Harv, and Penn, and NYU) gets great jobs.

its so silly. i miss NY like crazy but im sooo happy not to be at Columbia.

to each their own i guess.

wow, what did columbia do to you? 

seriously though, as someone leaning toward cls over more "laid back" schools like boalt and NYU, i'm interested in where this reputation comes from.  i've heard it several times, but it's always "i heard from someone who knows someone..." or "everyone knows that..." or "some people from my high school go to columbia law and its just so cutthroat"

on the other hand, everyone i've talked to who goes there (both on discussion boards and visiting) seems nice, relaxed, engaging, and really enjoys the atmosphere.

so, sorry to hijack this thread away from penn, but if you dont mind sharing how exactly you came to believe columbia is such an awful place, i'd be really interested.

same here.  i'm trying to think about Mich vs CLS mainly--and the feelings you threw out there are making me question CLS

[prelaw200]

I can tell you that CLS' reputation is, well... Id understand that Penn v NYU or Penn v Harvard is real decision to make- and id prob choose Harvard over Penn just bec of the name- but CLS is just.. i dunno, they seem to make law school more miserable than it has to be. Its insanely competitive even though EVERYONE graduating from CLS (and Harv, and Penn, and NYU) gets great jobs.

its so silly. i miss NY like crazy but im sooo happy not to be at Columbia.

to each their own i guess.

In all fairness, a 167/3.86 is not going to get you into CLS so it wasn't really ever an option.

[squirrelrogue]

1- I chose Penn over Columbia, Cornell, GW and full ride at Cardozo. I def recommend going to a top 15 school if you can. Youll make the $ back and the job opp (and therefore the level of pressure) is just 10x better. I chose Penn, plain and simple bec of the friendly/non competitive reputation, which has prove itself to be true, and its reputation. Ie i did not want to go to Col bec its supp to be a nightmare, and I did not want to go to GW (even tho ppl love it there) bec its not as well respected by employers. I think Penn offers the best combo there, on par with maybe NYU and Harvard.

I got a small envelope from CLS. I immediately said "what DICKS, i withdrew from their bs waitlist and they still are going to reject me?!"

BUt it was actually a nice note thanking me for updating them on my withrawal plans and wishing me all the best. Very nice. GO Columbia.

oops.

[MindTheGap76]

I can tell you that CLS' reputation is, well... Id understand that Penn v NYU or Penn v Harvard is real decision to make- and id prob choose Harvard over Penn just bec of the name- but CLS is just.. i dunno, they seem to make law school more miserable than it has to be. Its insanely competitive even though EVERYONE graduating from CLS (and Harv, and Penn, and NYU) gets great jobs.

This is a load of garbage.

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tag <noticing subtle NYU trolling, hehe>

[nmb238]

WOW, props to the CLS ppl for representing.

Re: me, my numbers and CLS- i have NO hard feelings. I withdrew from the CLS waitlist after I got into Penn off the hold list, and then got that letter from Columbia thanking me. I then got a call a few days later from CLS Admissions asking me if I was still interested in Columbia, where I was considering attending, and basically offering me admission off the waitlist "if i was interested"... this all happened after I got into Penn and stopped posting here, I told them I withdrew and they apologized for the error. I spent alot of time questioning whether I made the right decision, mostly re: the NY factor, but I am thrilled that I didnt go down the CLS route. I never had such luck from the Harvard waitlist, and was rejected flat out by NYU- if i am bitter about anything, it would be the NYU rejection.

As for 167s getting into Columbia, thats just silly. Plenty do, many more dont. To all the 167s out there- dont let a-hole comments like that deter you. If you impress them elsewhere they might let you squeak your way in...

As for why CLS has such a bad reputation... I dont know? But it does. That is not a load of crap- I mean, I have friends who went there who HATED it, hated every minute of their lives their 1L year and a lil bit their 2L year but just thought that was law school, what can ya do? I was never sure if it was a law school thing or a CLS thing- and while 1L isnt fun anywhere, its def not a miserable experience here at Penn. Thats all I can speak to with any authority bec the CLS folks are right- for every person that I can find who hates it, they can find someone who likes it. But there is a gen  reputation out there, which is a fact, and if someone were to tell me its all bs I could not really argue with it. Im here, not there.

[////]

I believe you. Your LSN profile definitely matches your story (and very few seem to update anything after they have decided).

Would your provide (or PM me) the specifics about what your friends didn't like about CLS?

My choices don't include Penn (FWIW - I did write the Why Penn) but the NYU v. CLS debate fascinates me for obvious reasons.

[squirrelrogue]

As for why CLS has such a bad reputation... I dont know? But it does. That is not a load of crap- I mean, I have friends who went there who HATED it, hated every minute of their lives their 1L year and a lil bit their 2L year but just thought that was law school, what can ya do? I was never sure if it was a law school thing or a CLS thing- and while 1L isnt fun anywhere, its def not a miserable experience here at Penn. Thats all I can speak to with any authority bec the CLS folks are right- for every person that I can find who hates it, they can find someone who likes it. But there is a gen  reputation out there, which is a fact, and if someone were to tell me its all bs I could not really argue with it. Im here, not there.

unfortunately, there is a general reputation out there for penn, as well.  it has a reputation for students who mask their insecurities at attending what they suspect (deep down) is probably an overrated school by overemphasizing how good it is, comparing it to harvard, highlighting how unique and special the experience is, and referring to its blatant and ridiculous yield protection tactics as "selectivity" or "unpredictability."
And if next year, as a happy 1L somewhere, i were to casually include in a post how ecstatic i was that i didn't go to penn because of this reputation, would you perhaps consider such a move needlessly defamatory?

these reputations get "out there" because they are repeated by people like you or I who really don't have a clue as to their validity. 

also didn't a penn student open fire on someone the other week?