Law School Discussion

Fordham PT or FT?

Fordham PT or FT?
« on: January 03, 2007, 04:59:40 PM »
I can't decide which to apply to.  I'm a long shot for FT, but I'd hate to pass up the chance of going FT if I don't have to.  At the same time, I would hate to pass up Fordham all together if I could squeeze into the PT program.

23, White, male.  I've been working for 18 months, split between two big companies.  I scored a 160 on the LSAT and received a 3.49 in Computer Science from the University of Delaware (Honors Program).

I know I'm not guaranteed PT or FT with my numbers, but do I have a prayer at FT?  If so, I might chance it.

Thanks for any input.

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 06:43:34 PM »
Call the school and find out what you should do if you would prefer to go full time but would go part time.

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 07:59:10 PM »
i'm a part-time student at fordham... with your numbers, you need to apply PT.  The full-time lsat range is 164-167 with something like 3.37-3.7ish gpa.  The part-time range is 160-163 and 3.2ish to 3.5 or .6ish.  you seem to be a bit late in applying as well so that's all the more reason to go PT.

even if you're admitted PT you can still graduate in 3 years.  you take 2 classes over the summer after your first year and then switch into full-time.  it's automatic, all that's required is a petition, it's not contingent on grades or anything else.

i'm not exactly sure, but i think that in some cases they offer borderline FT applicants a seat in the part-time program... but I wouldn't count on this.  i think your best chance is just applying PT.

good luck!

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 08:20:10 PM »
i'm a part-time student at fordham... with your numbers, you need to apply PT.  The full-time lsat range is 164-167 with something like 3.37-3.7ish gpa.  The part-time range is 160-163 and 3.2ish to 3.5 or .6ish.  you seem to be a bit late in applying as well so that's all the more reason to go PT.

even if you're admitted PT you can still graduate in 3 years.  you take 2 classes over the summer after your first year and then switch into full-time.  it's automatic, all that's required is a petition, it's not contingent on grades or anything else.

i'm not exactly sure, but i think that in some cases they offer borderline FT applicants a seat in the part-time program... but I wouldn't count on this.  i think your best chance is just applying PT.

good luck!

Is the program exactly the same? 

Same quality of instruction? 

Same professors? 

Same job prospects upon graduation? 

I heard they might make it difficult to transfer into the FT, is this true? 

Are most of the PT students older?  I do want to have a class with people my age, if possible.


Thanks!

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 09:10:10 PM »
I'm not sure exactly how to answer those questions since I haven't participated in full-time classes yet... however, you will basically have access to everything the full-timers have.  After your first year is over, you can transfer to FT without a problem.  The school's policy on this is to let people transfer back and forth thru the divisions as much as they want.  All that is required is filling out a form.  They don't make it difficult for anyone, not that I've ever heard of anyway.

your first year you will have legal writing both semesters plus two regular classes per semester.  this semester i had legal writing, criminal, and contracts.  our legal writing teacher also teaches at brooklyn law and is head of litigation at morgan stanley in NY.  our crim law teacher was basically a first year teacher, but he taught legal writing at columbia last year and graduated from yale.  our contracts professor was a visiting professor from U of Montreal who graduated from BU and has an LLM from Penn.  next term i'll have legal writing, torts, and property.  over the summer i'll be taking two classes to catch up and transfer to FT.  So i'm not exactly sure how this measures up to the FT program... but it should give you some idea of what you can expect.  overall, i think it was pretty decent. 

as far as job prospects on graduation... PT vs. FT doesn't matter.  everything is 99.9% contingent on grades.  my student advisor entered Fordham PT and I believe he has an offer from Wachtell, the #1 rated firm in the country... obviously he beat out basically every FTimer.  he said it's all about grades and not much else... by the way, i don't think he even worked his first year when he was PT either, and this didn't seem to hurt him any.

about the PTers being older... i would say most everyone is between 22-27.  perhaps 10-15% of the class is older than that.  avg. age is probably around 24-26.

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 09:16:40 PM »
I have two questions...


1) do PT get royally screwed when it comes to financial aid?  I.e. is there any aid available for PT students?


2)  what do FT students normally do during the summer of their first year?  I was under the impression that they dont typically get internships after their first year...so would PTers who transfer to FT not be 'behind' FT students when it comes getting summer internships

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 09:17:50 PM »
Thanks for the very informative post.  Now my only question, even though its answer was implied, do you really like and recommend the PT program? 

I am applying to Fordham (PT or FT) then FT at Cardozo, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, Rutgers and St. John's.  That is also my order of preference, but if I got into Fordham PT and Cardozo FT, I'm not sure what I'd do.

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 09:22:56 PM »
1) yes, PTers get screwed on financial aid.  however, from what i know, which isn't much, but i don't think anyone at fordham is getting all that much aid...

2) after the first year you are not disadvantaged in terms of jobs/internships by going PT.  If your intention is to transfer to FT then you have to take 2 classes to make up what you missed.  however, these classes are also offered at night, so you can do something constructive during the day.  in my case, i'll most likely be going abroad for the summer to do an exchange program and internship, after which time i won't be behind anyone else in any way... i'll get to take upper division classes at the schools abroad and then make up con law and civ pro first semester of 2nd year.  the only disadvantage really is that perhaps i won't have made any money over the summer, only spent it.  however, from what i understand, many ppl end up volunteering or working something low wage the first summer anyway.  i suppose it's possible that you could both work at a high paying job and take the two classes at night during the summer as well.

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 09:36:00 PM »
yanksfan,

   so far my experience at fordham has been pretty positive, so i think i would recommend it.  that being said, i'm considering transferring back to a Cali school because i just don't like NY all that much.  but i do feel that fordham is a good school and some of my classmates have already been offered some amazing opportunities... for example, there are a few ppl with hard science PhD's who were offered jobs for 100k+ and these firms are paying 100% of their tuition with no strings... and these are first semester students who hadn't so much as taken a single exam.  one guy who has this job already left about an hour early from each of our exams, so i don't think he even cares about grades at this point.  one could obviously make the case that their PhD's are the cause for all this, and not the pedigree of fordham... but at the same time, i don't know whether PhD's at cardozo, brooklyn, etc are getting the same type of offers (maybe so? don't know).  if you look at nalp or martindale, moreover, you'll see that just about every big nyc firm interviews at fordham, and many do not at brooklyn, cardozo, and so on.  biglaw cutoff at fordham is about top 1/3 or so, or at least that's the word from ppl at the school.  i have no actual knowledge here, but i've heard it's something like top 10-15% at cardozo and brooklyn.  i would recommend fordham pt over cardozo ft.. in the end, it's the name on your diploma and your grades that matter to employers, not what your status was while you were there. 

Re: Fordham PT or FT?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 09:51:51 PM »
Any idea where to get more info on firms that pay you to go to law school?