Law School Discussion

Poll

Which box would you check given my heritage?

Black
17 (77.3%)
Middle Eastern
1 (4.5%)
Other
4 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: January 19, 2007, 11:45:26 AM

Am I Black or Middle Eastern?

keepup

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 06:18:46 PM »
Before I begin, I did not clarify myself before posting my last message because I was leaving work so I just posted some quick thoughts. In this post, I hope to clarify myself and do the following:

I.   Show that race and ethnicity are not the same.
II.   Explain what I meant when I stated that race does not exist and that it is a classification created in our culture.

Race and Ethnicity are not same. Why?

You are confusing race and ethnicity to be same but an ethnic group can be a group of people sharing a common religion or national heritage or even a common cultural tradition. RACE is not determined by belief or choice to belong to a group, but rather we are all born into our race. A race is a group of common origin with common genetic characteristics. ETHNICITY is different because it is a common consciousness of shared origins and traditions. Ethnicity is cultural not biological and it comes from ethos meaning tribe or nation, and your ethnic identity is often linked to national, linguistic, and religious identity though not in any consistent manner.

Ethnicity has to do with self-identification, while race is more problematic. Most times race can be clear-cut whether it is White, Asian, Black, etc. But sometimes it can be really controversial because someone can be racially black and white or bi-racial. Personally, I definitely believe that race and ethnicity are two different things that are sometimes misused.

Example: Your race is black and white or bi-racial
         Your ethnicity can be American, Somalian, and Swedish.

Basically your ethnicity is rooted in the idea of social groups, marked especially by shared nationality, tribal affiliation, religious faith, shared language, or cultural and traditional origins and backgrounds, whereas race is rooted in the idea of biological classification of Homo sapiens according to chosen genotypic and/or phenotypic traits.

For you to not acknowledge any difference between race and ethnicity is senseless. I posted the Webster definition of ethnicity earlier because I looked it up and saw it. It was not to refute any point you made so stating that ethnic is the root of ethnicity is not enlightening because I or anyone else who types the word ethnicity already knows that. Also, if you want to consider your race to be Somalian due to a Webster definition that is totally up to you. However, as I stated earlier…I do believe that your choices would be either white or black, you could also choose other or multi-racial if you wanted to.

Okay part duex- I stated that race does not exist and that it is a classification created in our culture. What did I mean by that?
Whew....race exists, it is definitely a real issue in our society. However what I meant when I stated that race does not exist, is that the definition of race does not fit the reality of the human genetic variation of race today. “We are an extremely homogenous species genetically. As a matter of fact, all humans today are 99.9 % genetically identical, and most of the variation that does occur is in the difference between males and females and our unique personal trials.” BASICALLY, to sum it up super fast- I believe that race is a classification created by our culture, not by biology.  “The commonly held belief in the existence of human biological races is based on the false assumption that anatomical traits, such as skin color and specific facial characteristics, cluster together in single distinct groups of people. They do not. There are no clearly distinct “black”, “white”, or other races.” This topic is loaded and the choices concerning race look really simple but it can be hard. Race is a classification that has been made by our culture and that’s why it primarily exists. You may disagree with this but whatever...

Eh finally this is what I think in a nutshell as a Somali, I would identify myself as black concerning my race and as my ethnicity at first I would only think to say Somali but I realize that I could also state that I am American. I also realize that it may be really complicated for you to state what you are….so that’s your decision to make. I just wanted to offer my opinion on the issue. Whatever you decide to classify yourself whether it is black, white, Somali, Swedish, purple or yellow….it’s your choice. :) I know that I am not going to think that race and ethnicity can be used interchangeably so we can agree to disagree…..I am missing the Office, so I am done.

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 06:31:58 PM »
it is not that serious.

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 06:42:47 PM »
My father is from Somalia (East Africa). The term "black" usually refers to those with African origins. Somalis are Black in appearance. However, Somalia (as well as Sudan) are considered part of the Middle East. In addition, Somali culture parallels Middle Eastern culture in terms of religion (Islamic) and most other customs.

Filling out LS apps prompted me to question this critically.

To complicate matters even further, my mother is Swedish.

Your thoughts?

Check "other," and write "mongrel" next to it.

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 08:06:27 PM »

suge

Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2006, 09:57:50 PM »
it is not that serious.

oookay  ::) 
Your right, this is not that serious. However, a lot of cases that go to court are parallel in terms of logic, technique and trivia. It's good practice if nothing more.

Keepup,
 
Thanks for the detailed response. I too believe that engaging in good spirited dialogue regarding race, religion, etc, are fruitful on so many different levels.
 
I do find your definitions of race and ethnicity more comprehensive, however I believe that it is safe practice to refer to the explanation of a term from a widely used source i.e. Webster’s Dictionary to alleviate side bars for what a word/term means.

Your arguments this time, while much more persuasive, still do not address this question in the context of which option to mark on an application and why.
 
If ethnicity has to do with self identification, many more options should be included on ethnic identity question. This is not the case. One is given a narrow set of options and instructed to choose.
 
For example, the term Asian on an ethnic identity question encompasses Indians, Koreans, and Turks, all of who have different cultures and customs. These are three different sets of people whose “self identification” factors can sharply contrast the factors that comprise self identification for the different “groups”. 
 
In addition, the term “race” is sometimes used instead of “ethnicity” on applications, with the same options (Black, White, Asian, etc) given. These two words (race & ethnicity), used separately to gather the same information on applications, leads me to conclude that they are indeed “interchangeable” in this respect.
 
The main flaw with the options given on the ethnicity question is that they include races (black, white, etc) and regions (Middle East, Asia-n). If nothing more, this discussion has only proven that race/ethnicity and region do not always correlate with each other.

In terms of biology, I agree that race does not exist. But the question on the application is not one of science but culture.
 
I wonder if I could start a “American-Somali-Swedish-Black-White-Middle Eastern Law Student Association”  :D

redemption

Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2006, 07:42:36 AM »
lol at this thread.

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2006, 09:30:16 AM »
In my previous post, I wanted to show that race and ethnicity are different and explain why I said that “race doesn’t exist, that it is a classification created in our culture.”
I believe that accomplished both of those things.

In terms of biology, I agree that race does not exist. But the question on the application is not one of science but culture.

I already know this, I feel like I have said it a million times but maybe I am not being clear so I’ll say it again. Earlier I stated that “race doesn’t exist, and that it is a classification created by our culture.” In my previous post, I wanted to explain WHY I said that. I wrote part duex to support that race does not exist in biology and that it is a classification created in our culture. Obviously I agree that the race question on the application is of culture and not of science.

If ethnicity has to do with self identification, many more options should be included on ethnic identity question. This is not the case. One is given a narrow set of options and instructed to choose.

Just because more options aren’t given on an application doesn’t disprove that ethnicity deals with self-identification. I believe that ethnicity has to with self-identification and whereas race is a classification created by our culture. This is the difference between the two and  I stated this previously in more detail. You are using definitions from Webster’s dictionary to demonstrate that these two are essentially identical…but I don’t think they are.

I do find your definitions of race and ethnicity more comprehensive, however I believe that it is safe practice to refer to the explanation of a term from a widely used source i.e. Webster’s Dictionary to alleviate side bars for what a word/term means.

What about Dictionary.com?

Race-
A group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
A population so related.
An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Ethnicity-
Ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.
Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

What about Wikipedia?

Race- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

Ethnicity- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

These sites may show that race and ethnicity can be related but they are different and NOT “essentially identical” like you believe. You stated earlier that you believe your race is Somali….how is that possible excluding the Webster definition? I think that Somali is your ethnicity…and you don’t agree? Why?

These two words (race & ethnicity), used separately to gather the same information on applications, leads me to conclude that they are indeed “interchangeable” in this respect.

Just because race and ethnicity are misused doesn’t make them “essentially identical” like you said earlier. By giving you the defintions above, Ive tried to show that race and ethnicity are NOT essentially identical.

Here is where we disagree:

1.You believe race and ethnicity are “essentially identical”. I definitely do NOT think so and have tried to show the difference between the two in my previous post.

2. You believe that your race is Somali because of Webster’s dictionary.  I believe that your ethnicity is Somali because ethnicity deals with self-identification and all that jazz I mentioned earlier.

Where we agree:

1.Race does not exist in biology, but it is a classification that has been created in our culture. (I hope I never have to type this sentence again in my life)

2.That applications don’t give a person a lot of options to choose from.


So um yeah I don’t really know what to say..if you don’t think I’ve shown that race and ethnicity are different then prove that they are "essentially identical." You’ve already agreed with part duex by stating that race does not exist in biology and agreeing that race is a classification created in our culture.   

suge

Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2006, 11:27:51 AM »
In my previous post, I wanted to show that race and ethnicity are different and explain why I said that “race doesn’t exist, that it is a classification created in our culture.”
I believe that accomplished both of those things.

In terms of biology, I agree that race does not exist. But the question on the application is not one of science but culture.

I already know this, I feel like I have said it a million times but maybe I am not being clear so I’ll say it again. Earlier I stated that “race doesn’t exist, and that it is a classification created by our culture.” In my previous post, I wanted to explain WHY I said that. I wrote part duex to support that race does not exist in biology and that it is a classification created in our culture. Obviously I agree that the race question on the application is of culture and not of science.

If ethnicity has to do with self identification, many more options should be included on ethnic identity question. This is not the case. One is given a narrow set of options and instructed to choose.

Just because more options aren’t given on an application doesn’t disprove that ethnicity deals with self-identification. I believe that ethnicity has to with self-identification and whereas race is a classification created by our culture. This is the difference between the two and  I stated this previously in more detail. You are using definitions from Webster’s dictionary to demonstrate that these two are essentially identical…but I don’t think they are.

I do find your definitions of race and ethnicity more comprehensive, however I believe that it is safe practice to refer to the explanation of a term from a widely used source i.e. Webster’s Dictionary to alleviate side bars for what a word/term means.

What about Dictionary.com?

Race-
A group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
A population so related.
An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Ethnicity-
Ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.
Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

What about Wikipedia?

Race- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

Ethnicity- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

These sites may show that race and ethnicity can be related but they are different and NOT “essentially identical” like you believe. You stated earlier that you believe your race is Somali….how is that possible excluding the Webster definition? I think that Somali is your ethnicity…and you don’t agree? Why?

These two words (race & ethnicity), used separately to gather the same information on applications, leads me to conclude that they are indeed “interchangeable” in this respect.

Just because race and ethnicity are misused doesn’t make them “essentially identical” like you said earlier. By giving you the defintions above, Ive tried to show that race and ethnicity are NOT essentially identical.

Here is where we disagree:

1.You believe race and ethnicity are “essentially identical”. I definitely do NOT think so and have tried to show the difference between the two in my previous post.

2. You believe that your race is Somali because of Webster’s dictionary.  I believe that your ethnicity is Somali because ethnicity deals with self-identification and all that jazz I mentioned earlier.

Where we agree:

1.Race does not exist in biology, but it is a classification that has been created in our culture. (I hope I never have to type this sentence again in my life)

2.That applications don’t give a person a lot of options to choose from.


So um yeah I don’t really know what to say..if you don’t think I’ve shown that race and ethnicity are different then prove that they are "essentially identical." You’ve already agreed with part duex by stating that race does not exist in biology and agreeing that race is a classification created in our culture.   


Again you have provided a very cohesive interpretation on what you believe race & ethnicity to mean. You have also quoted to your benefit several times the statement I made “in essence identical”.

Let’s take another look at what I stated in its entirety.

“There seems to be some confusion as to whether the disclosure of ones heritage is to identify their race or ethnicity while these two words are in essence identical.”

My apology if this is still confusing. This statement refers to the context in how question is asked on applications. Not the finite definitions of race and ethnicity in the cosmos.  Once again, the terms race & ethnicity are used separately on applications to obtain the same information.

The key to understanding the question on the application is to understand what the question is trying to resolve, which I believe to be is what distinguishes the person from the rest of the options.

Race, as defined by the definition you have provided, is arbitrary. Therefore, a Somali could check Middle Eastern or Black for the question and not be wrong (the whole point of this thread).

Here is where we disagree


Your definitions of race and ethnicity, while much more comprehensive, are void when referring to the question on applications. Again, I say this because the question is worded with both race and ethnicity to obtain the same information.
   
Conclusion

I have always checked blk or blk/wht when possible and will continue to do so. After all, most people are not aware that the Middle East includes countries in Africa and assume that the Middle East refers to Arabs. Therefore, a Somali checking Middle Eastern could be misleading. In addition, as “b.red.chica” so eloquently stated, “If whitey can't tell the difference between you and an Ethiopian, then there isn't a difference at all as far as checking boxes goes”.

P.S. wikipedia is great for leisurely reading but I would never use it as a source. Remember, wikipedia can be edited by any with an account and can be biased and opinionated. For example, a person named keepup could log in and enter a completely different definition for a word that contradicts what is used by other “locked” sources.  ;D

keepup

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Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2006, 01:07:22 PM »
In my previous post, I wanted to show that race and ethnicity are different and explain why I said that “race doesn’t exist, that it is a classification created in our culture.”
I believe that accomplished both of those things.

In terms of biology, I agree that race does not exist. But the question on the application is not one of science but culture.

I already know this, I feel like I have said it a million times but maybe I am not being clear so I’ll say it again. Earlier I stated that “race doesn’t exist, and that it is a classification created by our culture.” In my previous post, I wanted to explain WHY I said that. I wrote part duex to support that race does not exist in biology and that it is a classification created in our culture. Obviously I agree that the race question on the application is of culture and not of science.

If ethnicity has to do with self identification, many more options should be included on ethnic identity question. This is not the case. One is given a narrow set of options and instructed to choose.

Just because more options aren’t given on an application doesn’t disprove that ethnicity deals with self-identification. I believe that ethnicity has to with self-identification and whereas race is a classification created by our culture. This is the difference between the two and  I stated this previously in more detail. You are using definitions from Webster’s dictionary to demonstrate that these two are essentially identical…but I don’t think they are.

I do find your definitions of race and ethnicity more comprehensive, however I believe that it is safe practice to refer to the explanation of a term from a widely used source i.e. Webster’s Dictionary to alleviate side bars for what a word/term means.

What about Dictionary.com?

Race-
A group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
A population so related.
An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Ethnicity-
Ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.
Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

What about Wikipedia?

Race- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

Ethnicity- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

These sites may show that race and ethnicity can be related but they are different and NOT “essentially identical” like you believe. You stated earlier that you believe your race is Somali….how is that possible excluding the Webster definition? I think that Somali is your ethnicity…and you don’t agree? Why?

These two words (race & ethnicity), used separately to gather the same information on applications, leads me to conclude that they are indeed “interchangeable” in this respect.

Just because race and ethnicity are misused doesn’t make them “essentially identical” like you said earlier. By giving you the defintions above, Ive tried to show that race and ethnicity are NOT essentially identical.

Here is where we disagree:

1.You believe race and ethnicity are “essentially identical”. I definitely do NOT think so and have tried to show the difference between the two in my previous post.

2. You believe that your race is Somali because of Webster’s dictionary.  I believe that your ethnicity is Somali because ethnicity deals with self-identification and all that jazz I mentioned earlier.

Where we agree:

1.Race does not exist in biology, but it is a classification that has been created in our culture. (I hope I never have to type this sentence again in my life)

2.That applications don’t give a person a lot of options to choose from.


So um yeah I don’t really know what to say..if you don’t think I’ve shown that race and ethnicity are different then prove that they are "essentially identical." You’ve already agreed with part duex by stating that race does not exist in biology and agreeing that race is a classification created in our culture.  


Again you have provided a very cohesive interpretation on what you believe race & ethnicity to mean. You have also quoted to your benefit several times the statement I made “in essence identical”.

Let’s take another look at what I stated in its entirety.

“There seems to be some confusion as to whether the disclosure of ones heritage is to identify their race or ethnicity while these two words are in essence identical.”

My apology if this is still confusing. This statement refers to the context in how question is asked on applications. Not the finite definitions of race and ethnicity in the cosmos.  Once again, the terms race & ethnicity are used separately on applications to obtain the same information.

The key to understanding the question on the application is to understand what the question is trying to resolve, which I believe to be is what distinguishes the person from the rest of the options.

Race, as defined by the definition you have provided, is arbitrary. Therefore, a Somali could check Middle Eastern or Black for the question and not be wrong (the whole point of this thread).

Here is where we disagree


Your definitions of race and ethnicity, while much more comprehensive, are void when referring to the question on applications. Again, I say this because the question is worded with both race and ethnicity to obtain the same information.
   
Conclusion

I have always checked blk or blk/wht when possible and will continue to do so. After all, most people are not aware that the Middle East includes countries in Africa and assume that the Middle East refers to Arabs. Therefore, a Somali checking Middle Eastern could be misleading. In addition, as “b.red.chica” so eloquently stated, “If whitey can't tell the difference between you and an Ethiopian, then there isn't a difference at all as far as checking boxes goes”.

P.S. wikipedia is great for leisurely reading but I would never use it as a source. Remember, wikipedia can be edited by any with an account and can be biased and opinionated. For example, a person named keepup could log in and enter a completely different definition for a word that contradicts what is used by other “locked” sources.  ;D



Why would I go into Wikipedia? That’s crazy. I didn’t even know someone could do that. ??? There are plenty of sources that demonstrate race and ethnicity are not in essence identical...go take a look. Also dont apologize.

Remember this?

3.Somali would be your ethnicity not your race, your race would be black

If Somali is not my race, then according to the definition of race, I do not have a shared interest with other Somalis, nor do I have their habits or characteristics.

I believe that I do have shared interests, habits and characteristics of other Somalis.


1. Ethnicity and race are not identical…they are totally different despite what you may have put together concerning Webster.

“In essence identical” was the term that I used. I would say that “classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background” and “class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics” could be used interchangeably. For you to state “they are totally different” makes absolutely no sense.


This is why I wrote about the difference between race and ethnicity because you failed to realize it.

So let me ask you one more question, and Im sure you'll either avoid this or type another paragraph not addressing the issue that I'm talking about.

Aside from applications, Do you think that race and ethnicity are different?

The answer to this question is simple: YES or NO.

Lets see if you answer this...yes or no.

suge

Re: Am I Black or Middle Eastern?
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2006, 02:23:10 PM »
In my previous post, I wanted to show that race and ethnicity are different and explain why I said that “race doesn’t exist, that it is a classification created in our culture.”
I believe that accomplished both of those things.

In terms of biology, I agree that race does not exist. But the question on the application is not one of science but culture.

I already know this, I feel like I have said it a million times but maybe I am not being clear so I’ll say it again. Earlier I stated that “race doesn’t exist, and that it is a classification created by our culture.” In my previous post, I wanted to explain WHY I said that. I wrote part duex to support that race does not exist in biology and that it is a classification created in our culture. Obviously I agree that the race question on the application is of culture and not of science.

If ethnicity has to do with self identification, many more options should be included on ethnic identity question. This is not the case. One is given a narrow set of options and instructed to choose.

Just because more options aren’t given on an application doesn’t disprove that ethnicity deals with self-identification. I believe that ethnicity has to with self-identification and whereas race is a classification created by our culture. This is the difference between the two and  I stated this previously in more detail. You are using definitions from Webster’s dictionary to demonstrate that these two are essentially identical…but I don’t think they are.

I do find your definitions of race and ethnicity more comprehensive, however I believe that it is safe practice to refer to the explanation of a term from a widely used source i.e. Webster’s Dictionary to alleviate side bars for what a word/term means.

What about Dictionary.com?

Race-
A group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
A population so related.
An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

Ethnicity-
Ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.
Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

What about Wikipedia?

Race- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race

Ethnicity- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity

These sites may show that race and ethnicity can be related but they are different and NOT “essentially identical” like you believe. You stated earlier that you believe your race is Somali….how is that possible excluding the Webster definition? I think that Somali is your ethnicity…and you don’t agree? Why?

These two words (race & ethnicity), used separately to gather the same information on applications, leads me to conclude that they are indeed “interchangeable” in this respect.

Just because race and ethnicity are misused doesn’t make them “essentially identical” like you said earlier. By giving you the defintions above, Ive tried to show that race and ethnicity are NOT essentially identical.

Here is where we disagree:

1.You believe race and ethnicity are “essentially identical”. I definitely do NOT think so and have tried to show the difference between the two in my previous post.

2. You believe that your race is Somali because of Webster’s dictionary.  I believe that your ethnicity is Somali because ethnicity deals with self-identification and all that jazz I mentioned earlier.

Where we agree:

1.Race does not exist in biology, but it is a classification that has been created in our culture. (I hope I never have to type this sentence again in my life)

2.That applications don’t give a person a lot of options to choose from.


So um yeah I don’t really know what to say..if you don’t think I’ve shown that race and ethnicity are different then prove that they are "essentially identical." You’ve already agreed with part duex by stating that race does not exist in biology and agreeing that race is a classification created in our culture.   


Again you have provided a very cohesive interpretation on what you believe race & ethnicity to mean. You have also quoted to your benefit several times the statement I made “in essence identical”.

Let’s take another look at what I stated in its entirety.

“There seems to be some confusion as to whether the disclosure of ones heritage is to identify their race or ethnicity while these two words are in essence identical.”

My apology if this is still confusing. This statement refers to the context in how question is asked on applications. Not the finite definitions of race and ethnicity in the cosmos.  Once again, the terms race & ethnicity are used separately on applications to obtain the same information.

The key to understanding the question on the application is to understand what the question is trying to resolve, which I believe to be is what distinguishes the person from the rest of the options.

Race, as defined by the definition you have provided, is arbitrary. Therefore, a Somali could check Middle Eastern or Black for the question and not be wrong (the whole point of this thread).

Here is where we disagree


Your definitions of race and ethnicity, while much more comprehensive, are void when referring to the question on applications. Again, I say this because the question is worded with both race and ethnicity to obtain the same information.
   
Conclusion

I have always checked blk or blk/wht when possible and will continue to do so. After all, most people are not aware that the Middle East includes countries in Africa and assume that the Middle East refers to Arabs. Therefore, a Somali checking Middle Eastern could be misleading. In addition, as “b.red.chica” so eloquently stated, “If whitey can't tell the difference between you and an Ethiopian, then there isn't a difference at all as far as checking boxes goes”.

P.S. wikipedia is great for leisurely reading but I would never use it as a source. Remember, wikipedia can be edited by any with an account and can be biased and opinionated. For example, a person named keepup could log in and enter a completely different definition for a word that contradicts what is used by other “locked” sources.  ;D



Why would I go into Wikipedia? That’s crazy. I didn’t even know someone could do that. ??? There are plenty of sources that demonstrate race and ethnicity are not in essence identical...go take a look. Also dont apologize.

Remember this?

3.Somali would be your ethnicity not your race, your race would be black

If Somali is not my race, then according to the definition of race, I do not have a shared interest with other Somalis, nor do I have their habits or characteristics.

I believe that I do have shared interests, habits and characteristics of other Somalis.


1. Ethnicity and race are not identical…they are totally different despite what you may have put together concerning Webster.

“In essence identical” was the term that I used. I would say that “classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background” and “class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics” could be used interchangeably. For you to state “they are totally different” makes absolutely no sense.


This is why I wrote about the difference between race and ethnicity because you failed to realize it.

So let me ask you one more question, and Im sure you'll either avoid this or type another paragraph not addressing the issue that I'm talking about.

Aside from applications, Do you think that race and ethnicity are different?

The answer to this question is simple: YES or NO.

Lets see if you answer this...yes or no.

As this thread illustrates, it is not a simple question. So I'll go with the option of "avoiding"  We'll agree to disagree.

Check this link for examples of problems with wikipedia
http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_strauss/20060103.html