Law School Discussion

.

jarhead

  • ****
  • 2715
  • "i keeps it reeaal!"
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2006, 08:32:29 AM »
I don't think this is the right time to take this kind of case through the federal courts (esp. not 4th cir.).  I would be looking at state law claims.

And my flippant side says: why the hell would any decent, self-respecting black person want to be a cop in Baltimore?  That is some dirty business.



 :) :D ;D preach! plus total sidebar but they were getting so desperate for officers that they lowered their drug threshold and were allowing people who'd previously used heroin to join...Heroin! wtf

naturallybeyoutiful

  • ****
  • 1203
  • Everything is everything
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2006, 09:15:44 AM »
I could be wrong, but I don't think the grooming policy applies only to cops walking the beat.  It is likely to be more comprehensive and include women working in more of the office/administrative positions as well. 

It's one thing to be professional in appearance (i.e. sculpted hair in kool-aid colors :-\...that's just a no-no and incredibly tacky to begin with), but it's a totally different thing for a woman with neatly groomed locs, twists, or an afro to be harrassed with the passage of this insensitive, discriminatory grooming policy.  I've rocked all those hair styles in the last few years...and quite well, if I say so myself!

jarhead

  • ****
  • 2715
  • "i keeps it reeaal!"
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2006, 09:53:12 AM »
I could be wrong, but I don't think the grooming policy applies only to cops walking the beat.  It is likely to be more comprehensive and include women working in more of the office/administrative positions as well. 

It's one thing to be professional in appearance (i.e. sculpted hair in kool-aid colors :-\...that's just a no-no and incredibly tacky to begin with), but it's a totally different thing for a woman with neatly groomed locs, twists, or an afro to be harrassed with the passage of this insensitive, discriminatory grooming policy.  I've rocked all those hair styles in the last few years...and quite well, if I say so myself!


agree on the last point i much prefer nice looking locks and corn rows to some of these outlandish braid styles...in the bmore case i think its an example of the few having to suffer for the many..i dont know if you've been to Bmore but its ridiculous...glitter in the hair chicks with finger wave mohawks (anybody that' been to Bmore knows im not lying)...they were having issues with it for a long time but people the officers couldn't police themselves so they went with the all or nothing policy...not saying its right but never under estimate the ability of a few dumb a--es to mess things up for everybody

One Step Ahead

  • *****
  • 6251
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2006, 10:53:26 AM »
I don't think this is the right time to take this kind of case through the federal courts (esp. not 4th cir.).  I would be looking at state law claims.

And my flippant side says: why the hell would any decent, self-respecting black person want to be a cop in Baltimore?  That is some dirty business.

Totally agree with bolded. I wonder what lawyers in MD think about this policy.

As for unbolded, well, I sort of agree with that too - but it's the same question as to why any self-respecting black person would be a prosecutor in the generally racist criminal justice system. The answer is prosecutorial discretion, and I'd imagine that to the extent that employees of the Baltimore PD can exercise discretion, it's good to have Black folks there.

And jarhead, this few-suffering-for-many argument should not stand up in court when one considers the fact that it overburdens black people and black women specifically. I get your policy argument and I get that you seem to be saying the state has a compelling interest in having a professional-looking force. But this policy doesn't seem to be, in my mind, a narrowly-tailored effort to meet that interest or the least restrictive means for advancing that interest. But I don't know much law, so maybe I'm missing something. :-[

might be the case if you were using federal equal protection jurisprudence, but state law claims in Murryland--not seeing it...

as for why any "self-respecting" black person would work for the police; it goes beyond discretion, but simple economics--police staff are among the highest paid workers in the city/have great benefits.  But beyond that, it isn't as if we as a community don't have a vested interest in our own protection. Sure the popo are messed up 8 out of 10 times, but in that 2 we have some safety/assurance that we aren't in Hobbes' state of nature. 

Statistic

  • *****
  • 9670
  • I never had a chance
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2006, 12:56:10 PM »
Wow, after reading the article, Dixon does sound a hot ass mess for suporting that *&^%. :(

jarhead

  • ****
  • 2715
  • "i keeps it reeaal!"
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2006, 01:59:13 PM »
i wasn't really making a legal arguement...as far as legality goes the policy will probably be found to be discriminatory from what i've read anyway...i was just more or less trying to give the reasoning behind it for those who may have thought the policy just came out of the blue or want to jump on the "it's racist" bandwagon w/o any further information...the Baltimore city police has had many many problems with the professionalism of its force in general...with the appearance of its officer's being frequently cited as one of the major problems...this policy was a long time in the making...not saying i agree with it but i don't see what else they can do to solve the problem at this point besides banning everything hence my many suffering for the few...we have similar problems in the military....the police tried making exceptions but it didn't work....who's going to make the call on which locks are professional and which are not that's a judgement call seems like to me...i hate the i'll just pull my locs back and put a rubberband on them look...its tacky imo but other people feel that's neat and professional???

Statistic

  • *****
  • 9670
  • I never had a chance
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2006, 02:18:34 PM »
basically

One Step Ahead

  • *****
  • 6251
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile

Miss P

  • *****
  • 19300
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2006, 08:19:09 PM »
I don't think this is the right time to take this kind of case through the federal courts (esp. not 4th cir.).  I would be looking at state law claims.

And my flippant side says: why the hell would any decent, self-respecting black person want to be a cop in Baltimore?  That is some dirty business.

Totally agree with bolded. I wonder what lawyers in MD think about this policy.

As for unbolded, well, I sort of agree with that too - but it's the same question as to why any self-respecting black person would be a prosecutor in the generally racist criminal justice system. The answer is prosecutorial discretion, and I'd imagine that to the extent that employees of the Baltimore PD can exercise discretion, it's good to have Black folks there.

And jarhead, this few-suffering-for-many argument should not stand up in court when one considers the fact that it overburdens black people and black women specifically. I get your policy argument and I get that you seem to be saying the state has a compelling interest in having a professional-looking force. But this policy doesn't seem to be, in my mind, a narrowly-tailored effort to meet that interest or the least restrictive means for advancing that interest. But I don't know much law, so maybe I'm missing something. :-[

Mo (and everyone else who explained why someone might want to be a black cop or why people who care about black neighborhoods might want black cops out there), I agree 100%. I really was just being a bit flip, though of course I have lingering questions about the good black cops do for anyone.  I'm of the Sound of Da Police mindset, I guess.  Overseer officer officer officer overseer...

I haven't had a chance to look into it today, but I don't think there is an equal protection clause in the state constitution.  There is, however, IIRC, an incorporation clause importing federal constitutional protections to the state constitution.  I don't know what litigation under this clause looks like in practice.  I'll look into both state constitutional and statutory claims if no one from MD steps up in the next couple of days. :)


One Step Ahead

  • *****
  • 6251
  • you say you want a revolution
    • View Profile
Re: Baltimore Will Do Anything To Keep Black People Off Its Police Force.
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2006, 09:27:34 PM »
Miss P I think it comes down to whether it is better to be policed by members of your community or by outsiders.

I took a look at the Maryland constitution.  Even given the incorporation clause I think the case will be steep.  I will be interested in your thoughts.