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Author Topic: t14 vs. the rest?  (Read 1742 times)

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2006, 09:41:08 PM »
No, by all means that isn't what I meant either, just that politics would come into effect if for some reason it started dropping. I'm certain it deserves its spot.

SanchoPanzo

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2006, 09:41:23 PM »
Last year at one of the law school weekends, one of the deans referred to the t14s as the 14 top 10 schools. I think this is a good way to think about t14s. They are all top 10 schools. Except there are 14 of them.
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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2006, 09:43:00 PM »
It would probably make more sense to talk about a rather dynamic "tier 1", that could be adjusted every year to include the schools that stand out from that crowd. One year it might be 13, next it might be 16 (yes, yearly major changes not very likely)... Or hmm... rankings are bad.

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2006, 09:51:55 PM »
It would probably make more sense to talk about a rather dynamic "tier 1", that could be adjusted every year to include the schools that stand out from that crowd. One year it might be 13, next it might be 16 (yes, yearly major changes not very likely)... Or hmm... rankings are bad.

Rankings help lead to informed consumers. At the same time law schools try to downplay the rankings, they all pander to them.
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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2006, 10:16:48 PM »
They both lead and mislead in my eyes. Although I recognize there's a need for some system in 198 schools, I'm just not thrilled about the way USN does it, for many reasons. I'd rather see a ranking made by ABA or AAL, but I guess that would be a bit too close to home, and would create some drama. At least some independent rankings. But yeah, any statistics can be manipulated no matter who does it. I'd also like to see a bigger focus on who comes out out law school and less focus on who goes in. It really isn't relevant that you have a bad GPA and LSAT if you come out as a brilliant lawyer, just like a 4.0/180 isn't relevant if you turn out to be a socially inept schmuck. But yeah, nothing is perfect, I guess USN is what we have to deal with, and rather to some extensive research ourselves.

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2006, 10:49:32 PM »
They both lead and mislead in my eyes. Although I recognize there's a need for some system in 198 schools, I'm just not thrilled about the way USN does it, for many reasons. I'd rather see a ranking made by ABA or AAL, but I guess that would be a bit too close to home, and would create some drama. At least some independent rankings. But yeah, any statistics can be manipulated no matter who does it. I'd also like to see a bigger focus on who comes out out law school and less focus on who goes in. It really isn't relevant that you have a bad GPA and LSAT if you come out as a brilliant lawyer, just like a 4.0/180 isn't relevant if you turn out to be a socially inept schmuck. But yeah, nothing is perfect, I guess USN is what we have to deal with, and rather to some extensive research ourselves.

I think you will find that under the current system, who comes out will pretty much follow USNWR.

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2006, 07:40:17 AM »
Maybe, maybe not. But you have no basis of making that assumption, and that is my point.

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2006, 09:53:07 AM »
Maybe, maybe not. But you have no basis of making that assumption, and that is my point.

Who comes out rather than who comes in? That's what you want to look at? WELL, if you look at the jobs going to the people who come out, almost uniformally the people at the T14 schools will be working at more high-profile firms, in more high-profile places of government and public interest, will get the better clerkships, and will also get the better academia positions. In other words, coming out, T14 students are generally more accomplished than their lower ranked friends.
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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2006, 10:02:14 AM »
I think you entirely fail to see my point. I believe what you say are to a large degree a result of the rankings being as they are. A firm will often prefer a person in the 25th percentile at Columbia over number 1 at Cardozo because "Columbia" looks better on their webpage, and you can't for a second make me believe that correctly reflects their abilities. You are taking the result of the ranking and turning it into a part of the ranking, which is horribly incorrect. With the exception of bar passage rate, the USNWR says absolutely nothing about the quality of students coming out of the schools. Is it likely to assume Columbia's alumi are on average better than Cardozo's? Yes. Is there a reasonable basis for assuming close to everyone coming out of Columbia are better than anyone coming out of Cardozo? No, not even close.

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Re: t14 vs. the rest?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2006, 10:09:00 AM »
I think you entirely fail to see my point. I believe what you say are to a large degree a result of the rankings being as they are. A firm will often prefer a person in the 25th percentile at Columbia over number 1 at Cardozo because "Columbia" looks better on their webpage, and you can't for a second make me believe that correctly reflects their abilities. You are taking the result of the ranking and turning it into a part of the ranking, which is horribly incorrect. With the exception of bar passage rate, the USNWR says absolutely nothing about the quality of students coming out of the schools. Is it likely to assume Columbia's alumi are on average better than Cardozo's? Yes. Is there a reasonable basis for assuming close to everyone coming out of Columbia are better than anyone coming out of Cardozo? No, not even close.

I agree with this. Hiring is an expensive process especially for big firms that have insanely high turnover rates for new associates. The key is that clients judge the people from highly ranked schools as being more accomplished, so if people are going to quit after a few years, it's best to hire the people who are going to give the most bang for their buck and when they quit hiring accomplished lawyers from a larger variety of schools to fill in the missing slots. Plus, there probably isn't a huge difference from someone going to Georgetown and someone going to a slightly lesser ranked school, because there are many students in the top 25 who could have gone to T14 schools but chose lower ranked schools for financial reasons.