Why don't blacks work harder in UG and on the LSAT so we can get rid of AA?

[t...]

You amaze me, pig.

[obamacon]

Not for another week.

Did someone misread the hockey stick again?

[obamacon]

where did the hockey stick metaphor come from, again?  That's almost as stupid as the penguin diagram.

?

[Funia]

Even if one were to view AA as a unearned "hook up," I know more white people who benefit from the unearned "hook ups" American life has to offer than I do black. 

Do two wrongs make a right?

Well one wrong sure as hell doesn't. The same people who say affirmative action is wrong would purposely remain silent if, for instance, one of their parent's friends hooked them up with a great job. However, unlike the scenario, their is underlying intent associated with affirmative action. It is a "wrong" structured in hopes of helping individuals overcome historical injustice - an element that still affects communities of color (and women) today. As a result of institutional racism in America, many people of color (and women) do not have equal access to the quality education and preparation needed to be successful in a number of fields. The simple suggestion of working harder and getting better grades in undergrad, is a solution that does not fit the problem.

What if your K-12 education didn't adequately prepare you for the academic challenges of college? How do you expect disenfranchised individuals to overcome the odds of growing up in a neighborhood in which the education system is in shambles? I think you need to take some time out of your superiority realm.

[PNym]

Even if one were to view AA as a unearned "hook up," I know more white people who benefit from the unearned "hook ups" American life has to offer than I do black. 

Do two wrongs make a right?

Well one wrong sure as hell doesn't. The second wrong is an attempt to overcome the hints of injustice that still affect African-American communities today.

You simply can't compare the plight of Asian-American's with African-Americans (apples and oranges). Both groups have two different histories and parts of their history contribute to the state of their cultures.

So you admit that AA is morally wrong?

How does doing very a concrete wrong to everyone else make the residual "hints" of wrong to one particular group any better? Do you think this will increase or decrease the net amount of wrongness in the world?

What if AA makes discrimination worse, by setting ethnic groups at each other's throats because of differential standards? If AA compounds the injustice, is it a wise policy?

And I never attempted to compare Asians with Blacks. I agree that their histories are very different (heaven knows how different the various Asian ethnic groups, much less the regional groups, are...).

[OperaAttorney]

Even if one were to view AA as a unearned "hook up," I know more white people who benefit from the unearned "hook ups" American life has to offer than I do black. 

Do two wrongs make a right?

Well one wrong sure as hell doesn't. The second wrong is an attempt to overcome the hints of injustice that still affect African-American communities today.

You simply can't compare the plight of Asian-American's with African-Americans (apples and oranges). Both groups have two different histories and parts of their history contribute to the state of their cultures.

So you admit that AA is morally wrong?

How does doing very a concrete wrong to everyone else make the residual "hints" of wrong to one particular group any better? Do you think this will increase or decrease the net amount of wrongness in the world?

What if AA makes discrimination worse, by setting ethnic groups at each other's throats because of differential standards? If AA compounds the injustice, is it a wise policy?

And I never attempted to compare Asians with Blacks. I agree that their histories are very different (heaven knows how different the various Asian ethnic groups, much less the regional groups, are...).

Wow! 

Attributing increasing interethnic (or interracial)  tension to AA is naively idiotic.  Ethnic groups were at each other's throats long before civil rights proponents lobbied for AA.  The culprit? Try racism! Unfortunately, its vestiges stubbornly remain embedded in today's societal fabric, necessitating such institutionalized initiatives as AA.

Now you have me reminiscing about my 1st yr in college.  My ex-KKK "white" college dormitory roommate from freshman year hated my guts due to my "black" skin, NOT affirmative action.

[t...]

So you admit that AA is morally wrong?

Oh quit.

Stop looking at things in a binary, black or white (no pun intended), yes or no, right or wrong lens. You're being overly simplistic and disingenuous by doing so.

The world just doesn't quite work that way.

[dashrashi]

I especially like the return to kindergarten and the whining insistence, if AA is ever "admitted" to be "wrong" by a proponent, that "two wrongs don't make a right."

Classic.

[UNAS]

and both sides have decent arguments?

Dunno.  Haven seen any good ones

I second that.

[PNym]

So you admit that AA is morally wrong?

Oh quit.

Stop looking at things in a binary, black or white (no pun intended), yes or no, right or wrong lens. You're being overly simplistic and disingenuous by doing so.

The world just doesn't quite work that way.

Well, is raping infants morally wrong? What about forcing children to beat their parents to death, a la the Khmer Rouge?

I agree with you that there are certainly shades of what's moral and what isn't, but there are circumstances that fall more completely in one category or the other.

Anyways, I made that comment because it seemed that Funia was agreeing to the moral wrongness of AA, and I wanted to clarify that's what she meant. If it were, then any defense of AA she would have to make would need to take that admission into account, which would make defending AA more difficult (not impossible, but more difficult).