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Author Topic: Why should I vote for Kerry?  (Read 3473 times)

Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2004, 06:21:44 PM »
How is he going to end corporate welfare without destroying corporations.  I know liberals love to hate them, but they still are our bread and butter.  They employ huge numbers of people and are our biggest foreign policy advantage.

Corporations are doing just fine.  They are shipping jobs overseas, not employing huge #'s of people.  They loot their own companies constantly and rip off the taxpayers.  This has got to stop.  Kerry plans to cut taxes for companies who do not ship overseas.  That is a huge incentive and benefits both the corp and the employees.  See the McCain-Kerry Corporate Welfare Commission (CWC) plans to save tens of billions of dollars every year.

How are we going to cut the deficit in a recession?  That is against strategy implemented by Democrats (FDR).

See above.  Rolling back the tax cuts for the rich is going to help immensley.  Offering middle class tax cuts will restore confidence. He will ensure spending does not grow faster than inflation.  He plans on extending Superfund which saves billions of dollars, freezing the federal travel budget (also saves billions), keeping jobs at home, and much more.  It can be done.  Would you rather keep Bush in who has proven how great his plans are?  He brought on the recession, and I for one do not want to give him another shovel to help dig our own grave.

How is he going to cut taxes on the rich without clobbering the stock market and destroying consumer confidence?  I've heard he wants to repeal the dividend tax cut, which would really hit the markets.  Like it or not, that is a short term measure of consumer confidence.

Why do you keep insisting that corporations and rich people are going to take a huge hit?  They did more than okay before Bush's ridiculous tax cuts, and Corporate profits over the last several years has been phenomenal, while unemployment was rampant.  Give me a break.  These people are swimming in $$, don't worry about them.  The middle class tax cuts are going to restore consumer confidence as well.

What good is re-importation from Canada going to do?  Why won't drug companies just raise prices in Canada or not even sell in Canada if there are price controls?

Are you kidding me?  It is going to allow people to purchase drugs at a reasonable rate as well as showing these drug companies what they will lose if they don't bring the prices down.  Drug companies wouldn't raise prices in Canada because then they wouldn't be competitive with the U.S.  Canada stands to gain a lot. 

How is he going to reduce health insurance premiums?

Allowing Americans to have the same range of affordable plans available to Congress,  reimbursing businesses for 75 percent of the cost of catastrophic care (huge $$ saver and incentive for employers offering employees more affordable health plans), and tax credits for small businesses paying for at least 50% of their low to moderate income employee's premiums


I agree with cutting foreign oil for sure (and am willing to take the economic hit to make that happen).  I actually agree with many of these points, but I don't know how he will implement them.

I'm not letting you off that easy.  I want real answers.  I know his answers are outlined on his website, but they are the vague political spewing both sides give.
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dr_draino

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2004, 06:23:34 PM »
Taken out of context, that statement does have problems.  But within the context of this conversation, I provided documentable evidence where Bush doesn't even want to ask the OPINION of the smart people:  9/11 commission, UN etc., etc., etc.,

I'm done with this thread.  I've provided several examples of reasons to vote for Kerry, some of them because I think Kerry has a positive trate, some of them because Bush has a negative trate.  Unfortunately, in a 2 party system, you can't seperate the "voting for Kerry" from the "voting against Bush"...they're one and the same.  In this situation, each example is going to be based largely on individual opinion and conjecture, but I tried to make sure any example I stated had specific documentable evidence to support my view, and I only posted examples that I thought might be useful for someone that was still trying to decide between the two.

There is a huge problem with this.  Generally there are smart people on both sides of EVERY issue.  Listening to both sides is critical.  Implementing both is normally impossible.  That is where leadership comes into play.

I don't care who you are, you don't turn down advice from smart people, whether they're your smart people or somebody elses smart people.  President's should head informed advice from anywhere and everywhere.  There are many times when your cabinet will not be the most informed group of people on a topic, in those times be willing to reach out to others.

Up until the day before 9/11 Condi Rice was still spouting off about nation-states being the biggest threat to our security.  We are then hit hard by a complete non-state entity and enter a war with nothing that resembles a nation-state.  This tells me you better be looking for advice from people other than just Dr. Rice...not that you should discount her, but this is all new, times when you confront something new are the times when you need to open your circle to advice the most.  Bush has done just the opposite. 

Kerry has shown his ability to reach out to whoever can offer him help in acheiving his goals in the senate and I believe he'll do the same as president and that you should vote for him.



If you're president, chances are you don't.  That's why you have an inner circle you feel you can trust: everybody wants a piece of you.  I have a feeling he'll implement all 9/11 commission findings that make sense to him.  This is not something to expect him to have already done 3 months or less after the report was released, especially in the middle of an election cycle.

ZAP

Bisquick

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2004, 06:29:02 PM »
Have you taken economics?

How is he going to end corporate welfare without destroying corporations.  I know liberals love to hate them, but they still are our bread and butter.  They employ huge numbers of people and are our biggest foreign policy advantage.

Corporations are doing just fine.  They are shipping jobs overseas, not employing huge #'s of people.  They loot their own companies constantly and rip off the taxpayers.  This has got to stop.  Kerry plans to cut taxes for companies who do not ship overseas.  That is a huge incentive and benefits both the corp and the employees.  See the McCain-Kerry Corporate Welfare Commission (CWC) plans to save tens of billions of dollars every year.

How are we going to cut the deficit in a recession?  That is against strategy implemented by Democrats (FDR).

See above.  Rolling back the tax cuts for the rich is going to help immensley.  Offering middle class tax cuts will restore confidence. He will ensure spending does not grow faster than inflation.  He plans on extending Superfund which saves billions of dollars, freezing the federal travel budget (also saves billions), keeping jobs at home, and much more.  It can be done.  Would you rather keep Bush in who has proven how great his plans are?  He brought on the recession, and I for one do not want to give him another shovel to help dig our own grave.

How is he going to cut taxes on the rich without clobbering the stock market and destroying consumer confidence?  I've heard he wants to repeal the dividend tax cut, which would really hit the markets.  Like it or not, that is a short term measure of consumer confidence.

Why do you keep insisting that corporations and rich people are going to take a huge hit?  They did more than okay before Bush's ridiculous tax cuts, and Corporate profits over the last several years has been phenomenal, while unemployment was rampant.  Give me a break.  These people are swimming in $$, don't worry about them.  The middle class tax cuts are going to restore consumer confidence as well.

What good is re-importation from Canada going to do?  Why won't drug companies just raise prices in Canada or not even sell in Canada if there are price controls?

Are you kidding me?  It is going to allow people to purchase drugs at a reasonable rate as well as showing these drug companies what they will lose if they don't bring the prices down.  Drug companies wouldn't raise prices in Canada because then they wouldn't be competitive with the U.S.  Canada stands to gain a lot. 

How is he going to reduce health insurance premiums?

Allowing Americans to have the same range of affordable plans available to Congress,  reimbursing businesses for 75 percent of the cost of catastrophic care (huge $$ saver and incentive for employers offering employees more affordable health plans), and tax credits for small businesses paying for at least 50% of their low to moderate income employee's premiums


I agree with cutting foreign oil for sure (and am willing to take the economic hit to make that happen).  I actually agree with many of these points, but I don't know how he will implement them.

I'm not letting you off that easy.  I want real answers.  I know his answers are outlined on his website, but they are the vague political spewing both sides give.
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Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2004, 06:32:54 PM »
Have you taken economics?

How is he going to end corporate welfare without destroying corporations.  I know liberals love to hate them, but they still are our bread and butter.  They employ huge numbers of people and are our biggest foreign policy advantage.

Corporations are doing just fine.  They are shipping jobs overseas, not employing huge #'s of people.  They loot their own companies constantly and rip off the taxpayers.  This has got to stop.  Kerry plans to cut taxes for companies who do not ship overseas.  That is a huge incentive and benefits both the corp and the employees.  See the McCain-Kerry Corporate Welfare Commission (CWC) plans to save tens of billions of dollars every year.

How are we going to cut the deficit in a recession?  That is against strategy implemented by Democrats (FDR).

See above.  Rolling back the tax cuts for the rich is going to help immensley.  Offering middle class tax cuts will restore confidence. He will ensure spending does not grow faster than inflation.  He plans on extending Superfund which saves billions of dollars, freezing the federal travel budget (also saves billions), keeping jobs at home, and much more.  It can be done.  Would you rather keep Bush in who has proven how great his plans are?  He brought on the recession, and I for one do not want to give him another shovel to help dig our own grave.

How is he going to cut taxes on the rich without clobbering the stock market and destroying consumer confidence?  I've heard he wants to repeal the dividend tax cut, which would really hit the markets.  Like it or not, that is a short term measure of consumer confidence.

Why do you keep insisting that corporations and rich people are going to take a huge hit?  They did more than okay before Bush's ridiculous tax cuts, and Corporate profits over the last several years has been phenomenal, while unemployment was rampant.  Give me a break.  These people are swimming in $$, don't worry about them.  The middle class tax cuts are going to restore consumer confidence as well.

What good is re-importation from Canada going to do?  Why won't drug companies just raise prices in Canada or not even sell in Canada if there are price controls?

Are you kidding me?  It is going to allow people to purchase drugs at a reasonable rate as well as showing these drug companies what they will lose if they don't bring the prices down.  Drug companies wouldn't raise prices in Canada because then they wouldn't be competitive with the U.S.  Canada stands to gain a lot. 

How is he going to reduce health insurance premiums?

Allowing Americans to have the same range of affordable plans available to Congress,  reimbursing businesses for 75 percent of the cost of catastrophic care (huge $$ saver and incentive for employers offering employees more affordable health plans), and tax credits for small businesses paying for at least 50% of their low to moderate income employee's premiums


I agree with cutting foreign oil for sure (and am willing to take the economic hit to make that happen).  I actually agree with many of these points, but I don't know how he will implement them.

I'm not letting you off that easy.  I want real answers.  I know his answers are outlined on his website, but they are the vague political spewing both sides give.

yes....and white collar crime, and law and inequality, etc. That is irrelevant.  You specifically asked why you should vote for Kerry, and that entails discussing what he intends to do.  You don't want any information from the horse's mouth (i.e., the website), so I don't know what you are searching for.   ::)
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TyroneShoelaces

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2004, 06:51:30 PM »
Have you taken economics?

Have you?  I've taken 3 econ courses.  Simply put supply side economics works in theory only.  It didn't work in the 80's and it sure as hell isn't working now. It fails to take into account the increasingly global nature of companies, and there willingness to outsource jobs overseas. This eliminates the expected boost the tax cuts are expected to create. This also increases national debt further hampering growth.  While increased debt is helpful in a recession, it is only helpful when it comes from increased gov spending NOT decreased tax revenue. 

Bisquick

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2004, 06:54:56 PM »
the information from the horses mouth had no "how's".  I'm relatively confident I am smart enough to look that up on his site.  

I'd love to cut the deficit to nothing, feed all the hungry children in the world, have healthcare for all but it can't happen.

I appreciated most of your post but started laughing when you said that Bush caused this recession.  

Unless Bush ran up the stock market to irrational highs, tanked it before he got into office, set all of the economic policy for Clinton 2-3 years before the recession started, and blew up the trade tower he did not cause it.  Good argument could be made that he did not take the most effecient path out, but to place blame on him is crazy (sorry, but I can't even state that politely).

On reimportation.. Drug companies would much rather stop selling in Canada than hack their prices here.  That plan is going to end up screwing Canadians and doing nothing here.  Its not really a solution to the problem.  

Where is the money for all of the health insurance reform going to hatch?  Most places that have great social healthcare also run 60% tax rates.  I don't particularly care to see that happen.

I don't see Bush healthcare proposals as strong points either, but I can't see Kerry's as reasons to vote for him.
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Bisquick

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2004, 06:58:54 PM »
Have you taken economics?

Have you? I've taken 3 econ courses. Simply put supply side economics works in theory only. It didn't work in the 80's and it sure as hell isn't working now. It fails to take into account the increasingly global nature of companies, and there willingness to outsource jobs overseas. This eliminates the expected boost the tax cuts are expected to create. This also increases national debt further hampering growth. While increased debt is helpful in a recession, it is only helpful when it comes from increased gov spending NOT decreased tax revenue.

I have a minor in economics plus extra courses.  My reason for doubt (or caring) came when blame for the recession was placed on Bush.
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TyroneShoelaces

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2004, 07:07:39 PM »
Biscuit, I agree with you on the health care reform not being able to work.  Money is not the only problem. In many of those countries there are also usually long waits for a lot of treatments. This is why a lot of Canadians come to the United States and pay for medical treatment rather than waiting for months in Canada to get it free.  While it would be nice to provide health care to everyone, it shouldn't come at the expense of quality medical care.

Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2004, 08:44:00 PM »
No one is talking about health care for everyone, but reduced premiums and prescription drugs.  You know, how it was before Bush came in to office.  Sorry, but I will continue to blame Bush for how he has reacted in the face of the recession.  I was being vague when I stated it is Bush's fault, but I will stand by my assertion that he has made matters worse.  The recession had not occured during the Clinton administration, but was a natural progression that just happened to occur during the 2nd month of Bush's presidency.

This is a funny commentary on the subject:

Blaming Bush Recession On Bill
By Kelley Kramer
Jul 25, 2002

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I am so sick of these lying Republicans trying to blame the Bush Recession on Bill Clinton. The last year should convince anyone that Republicans are the most pathetic 'blamers' of all-time.

Doesn't it figure that the same people who always screw up our economy always blame other people for their actions? The word 'accountability' is NOT in any Republican dictionary! Here's something we can do:

Remind Republicans this is not America's first Bush recession. Going by the current Republicans spin, was the first Bush recession Ronald Reagan's fault? Ask them who they blame for the Reagan recession of '82-'83? What about the Ford recession? Or the Nixon recession? Were those Bill Clinton's fault too?

The stock market has gone down more under Bush than anyone, including Herbert Hoover. Is that Clinton's fault? Do they blame Bill for Hoover's lousy record? Was the Reagan stock market crash of 1987 Bill Clinton's fault?

What about Reagan's and George Bush's exploding deficits and bankrupt government? Was that Clinton's fault or Reagan's and George Bush's? Clinton closed the borrow and spend gap and gave us huge surpluses, which Bush II wasted.

Its obvious, Republicans and GW Bush do not believe in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Remind those pathetic blamers who can't balance a budget or build an economic plan that Bill Clinton led us to the longest and strongest economic expansion in the entire history of the Unites States of America!

You know what else? That finger Republicans are pointing around to blame Clinton for Bush's screw-ups? When Clinton was president we held that finger straight up in the air, because back when Bill was prez we were number ONE!!

Here's Mike's Easy Economics Lesson:

Back in the Clinton / Gore years, unemployment was going DOWN. Before then, with Bush I it was going UP. Today, with Bush II it's going UP AGAIN. During the Clinton / Gore years the stock market and the economy were going UP. Before then they were going DOWN, and today they're going DOWN AGAIN! During the Clinton / Gore years, our debt was going DOWN. Before then it was going UP, and now it's going UP AGAIN!

So, to recap: During the Clinton / Gore years, all the things we needed to go up went up, and all the things we needed to go down went down. It was good. But during the Bush years -- Bush the Wimp and Bush the Chimp -- things we wanted to go up went down, and things we wanted to go down went up. That's bad.

Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004 by MikeHersh.com

MikeHersh.com invites you to reproduce, reprint or broadcast any material at this site, provided you identify the source as MikeHersh.com. All Internet and email summaries, excerpts or other written reproductions must include this blurb and a link to http://www.MikeHersh.com.


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Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Why should I vote for Kerry?
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2004, 09:00:54 PM »
Bottom line, if you care about consumers, education, health care, the environment, the "underdog," vote for Kerry.  If you care about keeping corporations and fat cats rich and exploitative, continue alienating us from the rest of the world, and dividing instead of uniting, by all means vote for Bush.  Best of luck with your decision.  :)
Loyola LA Here I Come!!